Random Shenmue IV Thoughts.

[Suzaku]

to tell the truth, RGG real talent is their work organization, they are one of the few team that can release games on yearly basis while mantaining high quality and polishing.

But when it comes to actual gameplay and mechanics they adopt, they are mostly archaic, they still develop games with the Playstation 2 in mind, and you see this in all yakuza, with npc that still acts like scripted robots, limited interaction, no real time day-night cycle, no weather, still rely on text dialogue boxes and simple linear quests etc.

It's the opposite of Shenmue, but what we need is their manpower and in-house resources (mocap studio etc.), not their direction.

In any case Shenmue is a Sega game (way more than Yakuza that born with huge Sony influences), and it should be made in-house, and RGG has various staff from old AM2, so it would be the natural choice.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

to tell the truth, RGG real talent is their work organization, they are one of the few team that can release games on yearly basis while mantaining high quality and polishing.

But when it comes to actual gameplay and mechanics they adopt, they are mostly archaic, they still develop games with the Playstation 2 in mind, and you see this in all yakuza, with npc that still acts like scripted robots, limited interaction, no real time day-night cycle, no weather, still rely on text dialogue boxes and simple linear quests etc.

It's the opposite of Shenmue, but what we need is their manpower and in-house resources (mocap studio etc.), not their direction.

In any case Shenmue is a Sega game (way more than Yakuza that born with huge Sony influences), and it should be made in-house, and RGG has various staff from old AM2, so it would be the natural choice.

Oh stop it.

I thought we were to put an end to these petty shots?

And as for the day-night cycle and weather, practically 0 games do that nowadays still: it's not a plot or gameplay device that is required for that series, so who cares?

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Exactly. It's not there because it serves no purpose to the games.. RGG isn't a "life sim." These aren't new exciting technologies anymore, either. There's pretty good odds after a dozen or so games RGG knows what kind of game they want to make...

 

[Suzaku]

Oh stop it.

I thought we were to put an end to these petty shots?

And as for the day-night cycle and weather, practically 0 games do that nowadays still: it's not a plot or gameplay device that is required for that series, so who cares?

please, not the yakuza fanboy...

Exactly. It's not there because it serves no purpose to the games.. RGG isn't a "life sim." These aren't new exciting technologies anymore, either. There's pretty good odds after a dozen or so games RGG knows what kind of game they want to make...

in fact they do playstation2-like games especially because they never adopted these techniques, so it's hard to change or evolve the series now.
but before the troll above shift the focus of the discussion, what I meant is clear, in case of a collaboration we need only the RGG manpower, resources and organization, not their archaic game design philosophy.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Sorry, but I’ve never felt RGG is a lesser series because the stores don’t open and close depending on the day. That serves no narrative purpose here.

 

[Suzaku]

Sorry, but I’ve never felt RGG is a lesser series because the stores don’t open and close depending on the day. That serves no narrative purpose here.

archaic doesn't mean lesser.
it simply uses design solutions that were already obsolete in 2005.
In 2023, text dialogue boxes are not a beautiful sight for example, nor the npc standing still for 100 hours waiting to trigger the side quest...

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Keeps costs down so they can keep making games. Looks like they’re achieving their goal.

 

[Suzaku]

Keeps costs down so they can keep making games. Looks like they’re achieving their goal.

yeah but especially from a gamer perspective it's not a big feat when you have 10 identical games with so many recycled assets and the same old ps2ish gameplay...
sometime it feels like I'm buying the same game again with just new cutscenes.

 

[thedemon1238]

It's theoretically not impossible for them to help out a bit for Shenmue IV... I guess it's not out of the question. Considering a game like Shenmue 4 requires a lot of outsourcing, any help is greatly appreciated. I personally would be very surprised if RGG helped with Shenmue IV, but who knows... Everything is possible now. I don't care who it is, whoever helps, Shenmue 4 must happen! :)

Joke aside, the hostess club minigame in Shenmue would be terrible. Maybe some fun cutscene with Ryo, Ren and some girls in a club at most.

RGG studio is very busy lately - Yakuza RPG, Normal Yakuza , Judgment Yakuza, Fist Yakuza, Samurai Yakuza.... They definitely knows how to organize their work and use the budget optimally. The only problem is that Shenmue is a game where "budget saving" is a dirty word. Even they will have trouble doing that. :)

 

[You Arcade Clerk]

Yeah, I'm not interested in the whole Shenmue vs. Yakuza debate where people's biases are clearly showing.

My belief is that RGG's input would give Shenmue IV the polish it needs as the lack of it was my biggest issue with Shenmue III. And I say that as someone who loves it.

From a business point of view RGG also has experience working within budgets and as a Japanese developer they probably have more compatibilty with YsNet than any Western studio would have.

Be careful what you wish for. Every time a franchise gets that kind of treatment the original fans flip out.

Many original fans did that with Shenmue III as well. I get what you're saying, but looking at all the negativity surrounding the third game, the only way is up.

Shenmue IV does not need to appeal to only the original fans. They need to change things up to appeal to a bigger audience, even YS himself said as much. If that means losing some original fans in the process, so be it. In case you didn't notice, we're way past that point already anyway.

The next installment needs to reel in new people, not just us. We're not enough. It really is that simple. The problem is that Shenmue III didn't have the best reception and was met with a bunch of negative headlines leading up to its release. Gamers unfamiliar with the franchise either never heard of it or only remember some of the negative headlines and are weary of it.

A possible solution would be for YsNet to align themselves with a developer that will turn some heads and create a bit of goodwill. Enter SEGA/RGG.

I mean, proof is in the pudding, hindsight is 20/20 and this scenario isn't likely to happen anyway, but I'm confident this would work and nobody can convince me otherwise.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

I’m the perfect target audience for an RGG-led Shenmue, as I like both series. I’m just saying that the hardcore purists will throw their toys out of the pram if the formula isn’t just right. At this point I’d take no day/night cycle and text boxes over “Shenmue-styled” gameplay, as at this point the story, characters, music, gameplay take precedent over nifty technology. That’s the stuff that made Shenmue 3 weaker.

I could see Sega reviving Shenmue with RGG and making a parody game that mocks both Sega in general and Shenmue. That seems like the likeliest outcome to me, if it ever happens. Crazy bad VA featuring the original cast, ridiculous story (Ryo and the kitten getting into a fight with 50 Yakuza, then wandering into a cave and suddenly waking up 20 years later in China), high action… with a Shenmue facade. I’m thinking 75% of the forum would absolutely hate it but would scratch a few itches… That seems way likelier than anything else, unfortunately. I’d still play the hell out of it.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I’m the perfect target audience for an RGG-led Shenmue, as I like both series. I’m just saying that the hardcore purists will throw their toys out of the pram if the formula isn’t just right. At this point I’d take no day/night cycle and text boxes over “Shenmue-styled” gameplay, as at this point the story, characters, music, gameplay take precedent over nifty technology. That’s the stuff that made Shenmue 3 weaker.

I could see Sega reviving Shenmue with RGG and making a parody game that mocks both Sega in general and Shenmue. That seems like the likeliest outcome to me, if it ever happens. Crazy bad VA featuring the original cast, ridiculous story (Ryo and the kitten getting into a fight with 50 Yakuza, then wandering into a cave and suddenly waking up 20 years later in China), high action… with a Shenmue facade. I’m thinking 75% of the forum would absolutely hate it but would scratch a few itches… That seems way likelier than anything else, unfortunately. I’d still play the hell out of it.

As can be seen with someone ITT... And I'm a hardcore purist as well.

BTW, to your second paragraph, I don't think that would EVER happen as I feel the tone and feel of 'mue would indeed be honoured properly.

I would play the hell out of a game like how you're suggesting as well though

please, not the yakuza fanboy...

I'm a 'mue fan first and foremost. A concept you still don't understand.

The guy made a suggestion, not an open call to shit on something.

 

[Suzaku]

I'm a 'mue fan first and foremost. A concept you still don't understand.

The guy made a suggestion, not an open call to shit on something.

Good for you, do you know that I'm an original yakuza fan since D1 on PS2? Maybe even this concept is too difficult to understand for someone with a superficial linear thinking "critics = hater"

Now on this forum people can criticize every aspect of Shenmue series, even to the extremes (to the point this also caused some actual damage in the past, don't forget some dojo quotes and sources were used against Shenmue 3...).

But when it comes to Yakuza it's like a taboo, we can't criticize this series because of a single gatekeeper that is summoned EVERY SINGLE TIME yakuza in mentioned and try to ruin every discussion, is it normal? No it's not.

 

[9dragons]

I would be against a RGG led Shenmue. I do not think that their games are bad per se but they are too simplistic to be seen as a real alternative to Shenmue. I do not believe that could get the essence of Shenmue right.

Compared to Shenmue their games just feel outdated even their latest Yakuza does.

I am not hater though. I enjoyed the Yakuza games. Have purchased most of them and had fun with it. I also have pre ordered like a Dragon Ishin already and I am looking forward to it.

But the simple truth is that Yakuza is just not Shenmue.

Only Yu-San and his team should be allowed to move in with the series. If they cannot do that it would be pity but no Shenmue4 would be still better than a butcherd S4 from a different developer.

 

[Suzaku]

I would be against a RGG led Shenmue. I do not think that their games are bad per se but they are too simplistic to be seen as a real alternative to Shenmue. I do not believe that could get the essence of Shenmue right.

Compared to Shenmue their games just feel outdated even their latest Yakuza does.

I am not hater though. I enjoyed the Yakuza games. Have purchased most of them and had fun with it. I also have pre ordered like a Dragon Ishin already and I am looking forward to it.

But the simple truth is that Yakuza is just not Shenmue.

Only Yu-San and his team should be allowed to move in with the series. If they cannot do that it would be pity but no Shenmue4 would be still better than a butcherd S4 from a different developer.

I agree with everything
S4 direction should remain in the hands of Yu-San, with other teams limited to the heavy lift.

It's also the first time I finally read an honest take here, there is usually too much hypocrisy when it come to the shenmue vs yakuza, with everything always dismissed simply as "they are different games that do different things", that doesn't do any justice to what Shenmue achieved in 1999 and to what Yakuza and other series still cannot achieve even in 2023, on more powerful hardwares and with a more confortable enviroment.

and as a fan of Sega, I feel that Yakuza is not a substitute at all, Sega still needs to have Shenmue under their wing, licensing the IP externally is good for us (only because it's still in the hands of the original creator) but at the same time it's also one of their worst failures as a game company.

 

[9dragons]

Î have to agree. To put it simple Shenmue is Shenmue and Yakuza is Yakuza. Both series are great but they should not be compared with each other. As you say Yakuza is no substitute for Shenmue. The only thing they have in common are that they are set in Japan and they are both made by Sega.

That's it. Playing Yakuza does does not feel like Shenmue at all. I will never understand why the mainstream compare them.

I am replaying LA Noire on the ps3 after many years and that Game feels more like Shenmue than Yakuza ever will. Shenmue is still it's own thing that no game could match up to this day but some parts of LA Noire have a Shenmue vibe. Well sort of of at least.

Cannot say that about Yakuza. Yakuza is modern day Street of Rage gameplay wise not a classic adventure with combat elements like Shenmue.

 

[Tosh]

I dont really see the problem as long as Suzuki is still the director of the project.
Almost every single Yakuza (or spin off) game was made by a different director.
So if they choose Suzuki as a director and RGG Studio as the developer team,
it still can 100% be a Yu Suzuki game. That would be no different than
110 Industries making a game with Yu Suzuki as the director / head of the project.
RGG Studio arent robots who only know lines of code to develop Yakuza games.
Just recently they worked on Virtua Fighter. So they will work on whatever the head of the project wants to work on.
Even Yu Suzuki had to learn completely new things with his team to make Shenmue 3 happen.

Starting these projects depends on the people who are on top of the companies, handling the finances
and which projects are going to get the green light.
And i can totally understand if they are not interested in Shenmue or if they dont want to take the risk.
Almost every company will go for the stuff that clearly worked for them instead of trying experiments.
Dozens of game project suggestions and cooperations are being rejected probably every single day.

If you think about it, theres a really high chance that even some of the RGG Studio director suggestions
for a new game were rejected because some people didnt like the idea. I wouldnt be surprised at all
if there is a desk full of unused scripts of rejected RGG Studio games.
Thats just how it is.

 

[You Arcade Clerk]

While I honestly don't agree with any of the points being raised against an RGG collaboration, I respect people being defensive and having a certain amount of skepticism.

If I was on a Yakuza forum talking about an YsNet collab for their next installment, it'd be met with criticism as well.

To me it would be like a 'best of both worlds' scenario, but to each their own.

 

[9dragons]

The people from RGG are not known for innovation. They make the same game again and again for many years ( the Yakuza series) without even a small glimpse of innovation.

Do the proponents of the collaboration believe that the RGG people could pull off a real Shenmue? Developing more complex gameplay mechanics that would be Shenmue-worthy?

Did the Yakuza Dev ever make games that are way more complex than Yakuza?

I still believe that mixing Shenmue with Yakuza would not turn S4 into a better game. Because these games are too different.

But that's just my personal opinion. I do not mind to be proven wrong. And I am really curious about the opinions the proponents of the idea have.

 

[Ichiban]

please, not the yakuza fanboy...




in fact they do playstation2-like games especially because they never adopted these techniques, so it's hard to change or evolve the series now.
but before the troll above shift the focus of the discussion, what I meant is clear, in case of a collaboration we need only the RGG manpower, resources and organization, not their archaic game design philosophy.

Have you played Shenmue 3?

Nothing can be more archaic and technically bad than that.
Chopping wood, picking herbs, combat, turtle race, eating fruits, pRaCtIcE yOuR kUnG fu
Everything is just awful on a level I've never seen in my life.
Any developer would have done a million times better job than that.

And you hating on a franchise just because it's so much more successful than Shenmue?
Deal with reality. We don't even know if there's going to be a Shenmue IV. Shenmue is the franchise with the most defeated and depressing history I've ever seen. It's just sad.

Seriously, it's been a while since I've read this much shit on the internet. Yakuza is not Shenmue, just as Binary Domain was not Yakuza. Different proposals. A Shenmue by RGG Studio wouldn't be another Yakuza. In any case, you can rest assured that this is not going to happen. They have no reason to touch Shenmue. They are very busy with the re-release of Ishin + Gaiden + 8 + a new unannounced IP and quite possibly a third Judgment. Although the series was made with casual and adult audiences in mind, there is an optional level of depth for the more hardcore players. Just look at the growing No Damage community on Youtube.

If I'm on this forum it's because I'm somehow interested in Shenmue and I dream of a better future for the franchise, something very difficult to visualize to be honest. But reading posts of this level makes me think that maybe the IP had the fate it deserved.

I don't give a shit if the RDR2 horse's balls shrink in the cold. None of this has any impact on my experience with the game. I don't care if a game is technically impressive like GoW Ragnarok if it has lots of "walk & talk" moments that could be skippable cutscenes. I'm totally ok with games on a budget and not focusing on this pointless bullshit.

English is not my first language.