110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

Seems like nearly everyone who wanted it is playing and enjoying it, yet the critics have deemed it unplayable trash. Interesting. Scoring games 60 or below is essentially calling a game unplayable, buggy, sub-mediocre, worthless or some combination thereof… that’s always been my take on scored reviews.
 
"But the head man of 110 is obviously a big Shenmue fan, so I'd expect if he were to agree on publishing Shenmue IV, he'd give Yu far more freedom and assistance than Deep Silver did."

???

Where did Deep Silver restrict the developers in making Shenmue 3?
Deep Silver allowed them to delay the game again and again.
They even paid for things that we otherwise wouldnt have recieved with the Kickstarter campaign.
Before Deep SIlver came on board, Yu Suzuki wasnt even sure that all the NPCs are going to be voiced.
Yu Suzuki himself stated that they can look into far more things to add after Deep Silver came on board.
Some of you have a really weird view on how Deep Silver somehow made Shenmue 3 worse,
which makes no sense.
 
Rather, they are disappointed that Deеp Silver does not want to invest in Shenmue IV. Especially after the deal with Epic, that was initiated by them and hurt the image of the game among the masses. Not that i blame them for that. They wanted to get their investment back. It's all business in the end. As much as they give, so they take. Is it actually certain that Deep Silver has given up on the series? I'm not one hundred percent sure.
 
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Just imagine. The plot twist of this whole thread is that Deep Silver has been investing in Shenmue 4 secretly all this time. :LOL::D
 
Deep Silver wasn't totally a net positive for Shenmue.
Yeah. No. This statement couldn’t be more inaccurate if you tried 😂


This is precisely why I rarely post here anymore; I try to have an intellectual discussion and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but acting like a smartass jerk is unbecoming of The Dojo and I see a hell of a lot more of it these days.

If you want to elaborate, elaborate. Throwing flames and being facetious is rather a bad look, imo. I don't ever do that.

It used to be that everyone could share their own views here without stuff like this, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Why would anyone come back on this forum, about a series they are passionate about if they can't have a normal discussion without this discourse segueing into it?
 
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We can all agree that Deep Silver didnt have the best marketing campaign ever
and that it was shady to make it Epic exclusive and all that stuff. Yeah, that wasnt perfect at all.

Can we blame Deep Silver for magazines and websites using old assets, screenshots etc
for their posts, news and articles?
Not fully, no. All of this stuff was probably available and stored for the press on some PR website.
If these magazines and websites would have researched for 30 seconds,
they would have seen that those screenshots and videos are old.
Simply by looking at what was shown in the last couple of weeks / months. You just need two working eyes to see that.
So we can blame Deep Silver for whenever they used outdated footage, sure, but not for all the other websites
and magazines on this planet doing the same thing. All of us were easily able to tell what kind of content
wasnt up to date anymore, so why werent the journalists able to see that?

Even if somehow for some unknown reason the updated material wasnt available to them,
they could have easily made screenshots from the latest trailer instead of using material from 2019.
Deep Silver is not gonna verify the content of every news article, that makes no sense.
Also i think that we fans make a way bigger deal out of this than it actually was.
All the haters and people who never were interested in Shenmue just got more content to hate on
but they never were interested in buying the game in the first place ... so ...
Were really all of these Epic PC haters gonna buy the game if it would have been available on Steam day one?
Like all of the hundreds of thousands comments on the internet? So judging by that,
Shenmue 3 would have been one of the biggest releases ever on Steam, right? Come on ...

Did Deep Silver force Ys Net to implement a stamina feature, how the game should end,
how the characters should look like, what kind of engine they should use or any of this stuff? No.
Why would they? Did anyone ever hear anything about Deep Silver dictating Warhorse Studios
how to make Kingdom Come Deliverance, or dictating 4A Games how to make Metro,
or dictating Nine Dots how to make Outward ... no?
As far as i can see, there never was any big controversy at all with Deep Silver
when it comes to publishing games in terms of developers being angry because they ruined their project.
Sure, they canceled Dead Island 2 a couple of times
but Dead Island is a Deep Silver IP, thats not comparable with a third party publishing deal like Shenmue.

Who paid for the Gamescom booths, the live stream events, the interview videos in Japan,
who invited the journalists to play it and stuff like that? It was Koch Media (parent company of Deep Silver)
Deep Silver allowed Ys Net to delay the release multiple times.

And as i said, there are literally Yu Suzuki interviews where Deep Silver wasnt on board yet
or were they just announced that they are on board
and Yu Suzuki literally told the interviewers about all that different stuff
that he isnt sure about if they are gonna be able to add that with the budget they have.
And then surprisingly we pretty much got all of that in the final game after Deep Silver came on board.
I wonder who paid for all of it? Maybe some anonymous donator from Sony ...
or it was the multi platform company that agreed to publish the game ... ?

Was it Deep Silver who forced Yu Suzuki to skip a release on Xbox? No.
Pretty much all of Deep SIlvers games are multi platform, so PC, PS and Xbox.
And same case again, there are literally interviews where Yu Suzuki stated
that he wants to honor Sonys help at E3 by making Shenmue 3 a PS console exclusive game.
Why would Deep Silver make it PS exclusive, that makes no sense for a third party multi platform publisher.

We literally got MORE game because of Deep Silver, not less.
If you look at it from a neutral standpoint, i have no idea how anyone can come to the conclusion
that we got a downgraded or more restricted or worse game because of Deep Silver.
 
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I'd be fine with Shenmue 3's look and presentation with more polish and story. Plus it would save a tonne of money.

Yes the media might shit on it for looking old but if the story is good and gameplay holds up it can still do well.
I agree with this 100%. I do not give a toss if it supposedly looks “old” or whatever. Just make it fun and progress the story well and I’ll be happy.
 
I agree with this 100%. I do not give a toss if it supposedly looks “old” or whatever. Just make it fun and progress the story well and I’ll be happy.
For sure. Polish it up and away we go. They have to nail the story though. They don't and we're done as a game series IMO.
 
We can all agree that Deep Silver didnt have the best marketing campaign ever
and that it was shady to make it Epic exclusive and all that stuff. Yeah, that wasnt perfect at all.

Can we blame Deep Silver for magazines and websites using old assets, screenshots etc
for their posts, news and articles?
Not fully, no. All of this stuff was probably available and stored for the press on some PR website.
If these magazines and websites would have researched for 30 seconds,
they would have seen that those screenshots and videos are old.
Simply by looking at what was shown in the last couple of weeks / months. You just need two working eyes to see that.
So we can blame Deep Silver for whenever they used outdated footage, sure, but not for all the other websites
and magazines on this planet doing the same thing. All of us were easily able to tell what kind of content
wasnt up to date anymore, so why werent the journalists able to see that?

Even if somehow for some unknown reason the updated material wasnt available to them,
they could have easily made screenshots from the latest trailer instead of using material from 2019.
Deep Silver is not gonna verify the content of every news article, that makes no sense.
Also i think that we fans make a way bigger deal out of this than it actually was.
All the haters and people who never were interested in Shenmue just got more content to hate on
but they never were interested in buying the game in the first place ... so ...
Were really all of these Epic PC haters gonna buy the game if it would have been available on Steam day one?
Like all of the hundreds of thousands comments on the internet? So judging by that,
Shenmue 3 would have been one of the biggest releases ever on Steam, right? Come on ...

Did Deep Silver force Ys Net to implement a stamina feature, how the game should end,
how the characters should look like, what kind of engine they should use or any of this stuff? No.
Why would they? Did anyone ever hear anything about Deep Silver dictating Warhorse Studios
how to make Kingdom Come Deliverance, or dictating 4A Games how to make Metro,
or dictating Nine Dots how to make Outward ... no?
As far as i can see, there never was any big controversy at all with Deep Silver
when it comes to publishing games in terms of developers being angry because they ruined their project.
Sure, they canceled Dead Island 2 a couple of times
but Dead Island is a Deep Silver IP, thats not comparable with a third party publishing deal like Shenmue.

Who paid for the Gamescom booths, the live stream events, the interview videos in Japan,
who invited the journalists to play it and stuff like that? It was Koch Media (parent company of Deep Silver)
Deep Silver allowed Ys Net to delay the release multiple times.

And as i said, there are literally Yu Suzuki interviews where Deep Silver wasnt on board yet
or were they just announced that they are on board
and Yu Suzuki literally told the interviewers about all that different stuff
that he isnt sure about if they are gonna be able to add that with the budget they have.
And then surprisingly we pretty much got all of that in the final game after Deep Silver came on board.
I wonder who paid for all of it? Maybe some anonymous donator from Sony ...
or it was the multi platform company that agreed to publish the game ... ?

Was it Deep Silver who forced Yu Suzuki to skip a release on Xbox? No.
Pretty much all of Deep SIlvers games are multi platform, so PC, PS and Xbox.
And same case again, there are literally interviews where Yu Suzuki stated
that he wants to honor Sonys help at E3 by making Shenmue 3 a PS console exclusive game.
Why would Deep Silver make it PS exclusive, that makes no sense for a third party multi platform publisher.

We literally got MORE game because of Deep Silver, not less.
If you look at it from a neutral standpoint, i have no idea how anyone can come to the conclusion
that we got a downgraded or more restricted or worse game because of Deep Silver.
I agree Deep Silver definitely made the game better in allowing it expand.

However I will never know (and I know this is true) why they didn't send out new assets for magazines etc to use. Now they can't enforce people using them but that's the sort of thing that's avoidable.

They also cooked up with the review embargo which they had to retract and forced the game out at the end which resulted in a changed ending.

I'm grateful for the input but I sense they were in it for a quick earner and once it was apparent it wasn't they made what they could and bailed.
 
I agree Deep Silver definitely made the game better in allowing it expand.

However I will never know (and I know this is true) why they didn't send out new assets for magazines etc to use. Now they can't enforce people using them but that's the sort of thing that's avoidable.

They also cooked up with the review embargo which they had to retract and forced the game out at the end which resulted in a changed ending.

I'm grateful for the input but I sense they were in it for a quick earner and once it was apparent it wasn't they made what they could and bailed.

All of this is true yes, and all of it could have been handled better.
But none of this had anything to do with the actual development of the game.
All of this would have been wiped into the shadows if Shenmue 3 would have received
surprisingly good reviews. All of this typical internet drama is out of date
after just a couple of days and then people are moving on.
So its like a unfortunate mix that we got with the PR + game reviews
but we cant blame Deep Silver for being involved in Shenmue 3s production.
Deep Silver didnt make the games features or anything like that.
They inserted more ressources than Yu Suzuki was anticipating in the beginning of the project
and they gave the development of the game more time again and again instead of insisting to release it.
Sure, they could have delayed it even more but a publisher cant keep paying the devs forever and ever,
eventually the project has to be released.
We can blame parts of the bad mouthing on Deep Silver but not the quality of the game.
Yeah i know, we could get a way better project with more budget ... but there simply wasnt a higher bidder
so it doesnt make much sense to think about that scenario.

If we take all of the Deep Silver PR drama out of this scenario but keep the Shenmue 3 game quality
exactly the same, i doubt that the reviews or sales numbers would significantly change.
I'm pretty sure the core audience of interested people would stay the same.
 
The core audience of interested people will arguably always remain the same.

I'm sure it attracted a few new fans who appreciated the charm and sought out the older entries, but not a great deal. Rare is the game that goes from niche into a more significant thing--NiER is about the only one I can think of recently.

Deep Silver wasn't the golden goose everyone thinks they were, imo. They had shoddy marketing and I think they viewed Shenmue as a windfall, which didn't work out.
 
Yeah, you can have like surprise hits in the indie / AA budget range
but this mostly happens to full fan service games (sexy / erotic themes),
or like survival / crafting games, free 2 play games
or 2d metroidvania games that are way cheaper to make and stuff like that.

The third part of a japanese martial arts story series from the Dreamcast taking place in China
already has a way lower chance of being a surprise hit simply because it doesnt touch
any of the crafting, building, survival, sexy, whatever things.
And in terms of open world, people nowadays are used to way bigger worlds with way more stuff to do.
Its gonna be very very very hard to make a new Shenmue game a surprise hit
because Shenmue is way too ambitious for the budget it has.

Just take the latest Saints Row Reboot as example. 100 mil USD.
I think even the newest Tomb Raider had a budget of 80 mil USD.
And Shenmue is trying to reach AAA open world quality with like 14-18 mil USD?
It will never hit the high quality level this way.

This is like the Yakuza devs trying to make a AAA GTA 5 open world but in Japan game
with the budget of 40 mil USD.
It is way too ambitious.
 
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Yeah, you can have like surprise hits in the indie / AA budget range
but this mostly happens to full fan service games (sexy / erotic themes),
or like survival / crafting games, free 2 play games
or 2d metroidvania games that are way cheaper to make and stuff like that.

The third part of a japanese martial arts story series from the Dreamcast taking place in China
already has a way lower chance of being a surprise hit simply because it doesnt touch
any of the crafting, building, survival, sexy, whatever things.
And in terms of open world, people nowadays are used to way bigger worlds with way more stuff to do.
Its gonna be very very very hard to make a new Shenmue game a surprise hit
because Shenmue is way too ambitious for the budget it has.

Just take the latest Saints Row Reboot as example. 100 mil USD.
I think even the newest Tomb Raider had a budget of 80 mil USD.
And Shenmue is trying to reach AAA open world quality with like 14-18 mil USD?
It will never hit the high quality level this way.

This is like the Yakuza devs trying to make a AAA GTA 5 open world but in Japan game
with the budget of 40 mil USD.
It is way too ambitious.
I do agree, just hire a decent writer and use the same engine with an improved battle system. I won't mind smaller environments or less side activities.
 
Deep Silver wasn't totally a net positive for Shenmue.



This is precisely why I rarely post here anymore; I try to have an intellectual discussion and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but acting like a smartass jerk is unbecoming of The Dojo and I see a hell of a lot more of it these days.

If you want to elaborate, elaborate. Throwing flames and being facetious is rather a bad look, imo. I don't ever do that.

It used to be that everyone could share their own views here without stuff like this, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Why would anyone come back on this forum, about a series they are passionate about if they can't have a normal discussion without this discourse segueing into it?
I also seen attitudes far from correct and civil lately, and if this is causing that users with a clean history of respect and well manners towards community get outted... Well, its time to roundhouse kick some heads, aka BanDay. The flames of massive banning will purge the Dojo.
 
I also seen attitudes far from correct and civil lately, and if this is causing that users with a clean history of respect and well manners towards community get outted... Well, its time to roundhouse kick some heads, aka BanDay. The flames of massive banning will purge the Dojo.


Ehh, leave it be. We're good and have spoken.


My stress level has been high of late(we have our third child due in May) so it's not been easy street for me, of course, as the clock ticks and things to do continue to mount.
 
Reminds me a bit of Sifu

It's funny you mention that, because I recently bought Sifu and it instantly made me think of it too.

I have to be honest, I don't like Sifu and I don't 'get' it. I am not against difficult games. I have played the Souls games, played bullet hell shmups and other "brutal" games, but I just can't get into Sifu and I don't get its mechanics. It just feels boring and too hard.
 
Didnt play it bc i'm not into hard mf games but seems pretty alright to me, doesnt seem a 4/10 but didnt play it tho. Knowing the press (not only bc S3, i have dozens of examples of how shitty they are and if you usually read me you know my position) I'm sure the game is far better than press (and people following the press) says.

That being said, I think the whole thing of 110 Ind and S4 was total bs, they played us like a damn fiddle and they deserve some hate. If you're working on it or you have something to do with it but you can't say it because of contractual reasons, you could say "we can't say anything" or "no, we dont have nothing to do with S4". But they didnt, they teased us, so if thats the case, fuck them.
 
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