General RGG Discussion

[Tosh]

Maybe the Dragon Engine will be left behind after Yakuza 8?

Yakuza's Dragon Engine is a ‘Bit Old,’ RGG Studio Boss Weighing ‘Merits’ of Unreal Engine 5 Shift - IGN

In a new roundtable interview, RGG Studio boss Masayoshi Yokoyama said the studio is "weighing the merits" of a transition to Unreal Engine 5 while acknowledging that the Dragon Engine is "a bit old."

www.ign.com

"The Dragon Engine at this point is kind of a bit of an old engine.
We have made a lot of minor updates over the years for it, or we've made a lot of minor updates over it,
but we haven't made any major updates. So probably next what's coming for
would be a major update if we had to do anything," Yokoyama says.

"So, regarding [Unreal Engine 5], yes, we are researching it," Yokoyama said in response to a question
asked by IGN during a roundtable interview. "We are kind of looking at it and saying,
what are the merits of each? What's the merit of the Dragon Engine? What's the merit of the Unreal Engine?
And when it comes down to it, the Dragon Engine…it's really perfectly designed to represent a city at night.
The nighttime city. Whereas Unreal, it's better at showing nature and daytime and that sort of feel."

Talking about the challenges of modern console technology, Yokoyama says
that he's not as worried about graphics, which he considers to have taken less of a leap
than in the PS3 era. Instead, Yokoyama worries more about the sheer number of available platforms.

"[R]ather than adjusting in terms of the challenge of adjusting to a new generation,
much stronger technology, the main challenge is that now, we have so many platforms," Yokoyama says.
"We have PC, we have Steam, we have Xbox, we have all sorts of things from which our game can be a part of,
and so making a game that can be on all these platforms
and using the chance to share our game with people all around the world
is the major challenge that we think we want to face going forward.
And because of all these different pieces of technology, we want to maybe try doing something unique as well.
Whether or not we're doing it is a little bit of a secret though."

 

[BruceWayne911]

How could a Yakuza fan ask for more? 3 incoming games, a Remaster many have been pleasing for for years, a smaller action game with Kiryu & a full on sequel to Like A Dragon (7)... It's wonderful to see RGG really reclaim top form again and going forward!

I haven't watched the Like A Dragon 8 trailer as I am still playing through LaD7 this very moment, but I'm certainly intrigued by the other 2 for now. I never saw Ishin as important to remake - Especially after all the work needed to be done to make the other games in the series accessible. But throughout the PS4 generation RGG worked damn hard to give us a prequel, Kiwami1 & 2, Remasters of 3-6 & then sequels with 6 & LaD7. So while I still see it as an indulgence, if any game series deserves it it is this one! I can see myself playing it for sure!

As a Yakuza I'll definitely ask for more I'd like to see all the Yakuza spin off games get released especially Yakuza Dead Souls. I missed out on all these titles.

 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Really? I thought it was just the old Yakuza engine that they built the original Ishin on?

Could be actually; I just assumed it was UE4, but you may be right.

Sure, the writing is EVERYTHING. It'll be interesting to see how RGG's first releases sans Nagoshi are received.

Of course the real world reason for Kiryu's comeback is his popularity, but as long as they have it make sense in-universe it's fine.

BTW I have no problem with some people wanting a definitive ending for the character (or maybe even the series).
I feel that way for some franchises too, just not this one.

Nagosh has been basically hands off now for a few years, just giving the final ok on certain plot points and gameplay refinements: Yokoyama has been the predominant writer since 5 (and even then, he's starting to take a step back), so I expect things to continue as they have in the past few titles.

The good thing about the Gaiden is that it fills in a gap between 6 and 7 that wouldn't have existed, had he not returned in 7, which (as stated) is why I'm cool with it.

I DON'T expect him to be in a position of prominence, going forward, despite him being in the 8 reveal.

Kiryu is a great character but can I get a Yakuza game centered on Goro.

No. He shouldn't have even been playable in 0 and that was placating the fans (see the character election in my last post).

A game centered around Akiyama or Saejima would be much better for the franchise, IMO: even though it does well in the West, it still is a bigger property in Japan and they've experienced some Majima fatigue (as I have), with just how much he was prevalent in those 3-4 consecutive titles.

He's part of Kiryu's story, not Ichiban's and he already got a game where he was a primary protagonist, so time for someone else.

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

Yeah man, give me more Akiyama. Such a cool character. I’d hate to see him regulated to a non-playable, non-essential role like Daigo (not that Daigo isn’t important, but he’s just an NPC).

I’m cool with Yakuza Gaiden too, even though I didn’t think he was needed in Yakuza 7 (despite how much I liked his appearance). Not quite sure what to make of the length of the game though, with RGG saying that it won’t be as long as a regular Yakuza game. Wonder if it’ll still be full price then. They should just make it DLC for Yakuza 6

 

[danielmann861]

Could be actually; I just assumed it was UE4, but you may be right.

I was thinking that maybe they took the source code from the original game and ported it over to UE4...the old "same source code, better graphics through a modern engine" trick that a lot of remakes and remasters do (looking at you Shadow of the Colossus)

Would make a lot of sense to do that. Save time instead of rebuilding in the Dragon Engine from scratch.

 

[BruceWayne911]

Could be actually; I just assumed it was UE4, but you may be right.


Nagosh has been basically hands off now for a few years, just giving the final ok on certain plot points and gameplay refinements: Yokoyama has been the predominant writer since 5 (and even then, he's starting to take a step back), so I expect things to continue as they have in the past few titles.

The good thing about the Gaiden is that it fills in a gap between 6 and 7 that wouldn't have existed, had he not returned in 7, which (as stated) is why I'm cool with it.

I DON'T expect him to be in a position of prominence, going forward, despite him being in the 8 reveal.


No. He shouldn't have even been playable in 0 and that was placating the fans (see the character election in my last post).

A game centered around Akiyama or Saejima would be much better for the franchise, IMO: even though it does well in the West, it still is a bigger property in Japan and they've experienced some Majima fatigue (as I have), with just how much he was prevalent in those 3-4 consecutive titles.

He's part of Kiryu's story, not Ichiban's and he already got a game where he was a primary protagonist, so time for someone else.

I got nothing against Akiyama or Saejima they can get a game to, but Goro is that dude. More Goro ain't a bad thing he's very popular and awesome. Since the western market has taken to Goro they shoukd meet fans half way or at least release some DLC centered on Goro. GORO GORO GORO GORO GORO GORO GORO GORO

 

[Tosh]

Actual gameplay footage of the new version


To be honest, it doesnt really look that much different than the original on the PS4.
Even the fixed camera spots and loading times / zones for every shop are still there.
Not complaining, still super happy to finally get the game.
But this seems more like a new remaster with some effort, not a remake 'we pushed it to the next level' remake.

 

[BruceWayne911]

Some of Sega business decisions leave me scratching my head. Gamers seem to want Yakuza on the Switch but Sega comes up with nonsensical reasons on why not to do so. The Switch has sold nearly 110 million units at the very least port Yakuza 0 just to test the market.

Maybe due to hardware restrictions Sega doesn't want to release it. That maybe a stretch also cause they made Witcher 3 for the Switch. Also please don't mention the Yakuza game that didn't sell well on Wii U. The Wii U was a bad system most games sold poorly.


Also even if you don't think Yakuza doesn't fit the Switch why not port Shenmue. It was just a port.

Yakuza Producer Thinks The Series Is Too ‘Underground’ And Violent For Switch

Ryu Ga Gotoku studio head Yokoyama is reluctant to bring the popular Sega series to Nintendo’s hybrid console

kotaku.com

 

[WuyingRen]

Some of Sega business decisions leave me scratching my head. Gamers seem to want Yakuza on the Switch but Sega comes up with nonsensical reasons on why not to do so. The Switch has sold nearly 110 million units at the very least port Yakuza 0 just to test the market.

Maybe due to hardware restrictions Sega doesn't want to release it. That maybe a stretch also cause they made Witcher 3 for the Switch. Also please don't mention the Yakuza game that didn't sell well on Wii U. The Wii U was a bad system most games sold poorly.


Also even if you don't think Yakuza doesn't fit the Switch why not port Shenmue. It was just a port.

Yakuza Producer Thinks The Series Is Too ‘Underground’ And Violent For Switch

Ryu Ga Gotoku studio head Yokoyama is reluctant to bring the popular Sega series to Nintendo’s hybrid console

kotaku.com

I stopped trying to make sense of Sega’s decision making years ago. While I didn’t always agree with the company’s aversion to risk-taking in the post Dreamcast era, it at least made some sense. These days, however, I can’t begin to imagine how and why some of these decisions get made.

 

[Tosh]

A short video about some Ishin Remake concerns,

like for example how you now have these weird flashy OP magic particle effect attack cards in the normal gameplay
(including a very big new UI element on screen for it)
while they were only available in the optional dungeon crawler mode in the original.
And on top of that, to counter this mechanic in the remake, now the story bosses
have these kind of flashy Dragon Ball attacks too.
So its no longer about normal sword and gun combos,
now theres going to be flashy particle effect fire balls flying around and stuff like that.
Also there are dmg numbers on screen for all the attacks like in a RPG but it doesnt make much sense
because you dont see how much HP (in numbers) the enemy has.

And yeah, i dont like that at all.

 

[Dietsoap]

A short video about some Ishin Remake concerns,

like for example how you now have these weird flashy OP magic particle effect attack cards in the normal gameplay
(including a very big new UI element on screen for it)
while they were only available in the optional dungeon crawler mode in the original.
And on top of that, to counter this mechanic in the remake, now the story bosses
have these kind of flashy Dragon Ball attacks too.
So its no longer about normal sword and gun combos,
now theres going to be flashy particle effect fire balls flying around and stuff like that.
Also there are dmg numbers on screen for all the attacks like in a RPG but it doesnt make much sense
because you dont see how much HP (in numbers) the enemy has.

And yeah, i dont like that at all.

I'm guessing they felt the need to change it up a lot for the domestic audience that already played Ishin. I hope there's a "faithful" mode to select for those of us who never got a chance to play the original.

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

Looks like it’s just some flashy bullshit to keep the mainstream Yakuza meme audience happy.

 

[Tosh]

Looks like it’s just some flashy bullshit to keep the mainstream Yakuza meme audience happy.

Yeah but it seems like its now a regular feature of the game
that fights are gonna be like that, with bosses shooting Kamehameha attacks at you
and weird magical particle effects floating around your character.
And as far as i can tell, that was not a part of the original.
The original has some over the top animations and stuff like that
but there are no flashy colorful magic attacks in the story mode.
So this would kind of change the overall feeling / amtosphere
because thats a big difference between bosses charging at you with normal looking scripted katana attacks
and now bosses casting weird bright purple spells out of nowhere

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. The atmosphere is different now to keep it in line with the over-the-top and flashy nonsense of the Lost Judgement and Yakuza 7 combat systems. RGG is probably thinking that audiences are expecting this sort of bullshit from their games now, instead of you know, refinements/improvements to core gameplay mechanics.

 

[Tosh]

That would be pretty disappointing because never ever was i looking for some
flashy Ishin upgrade. And i think this decision is pretty weird considering how RGG Studio
said that they are more confident now in the release because of how successful
Ghost of Tsushima was. Ghost of Tsushima has no flashy magic spells at all.

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

Yeah, but I think the situation is a bit weird. Ishin originally came out years ago and now they’re finally releasing it in the west. Maybe they’re not all that confident since the gameplay is dated by now. It’s different from the Yakuza 3-5 remastered collection, because those all eventually made it to the west, so there was little to no confusion. RGG could be worried that audiences will think Ishin is a totally brand new game created with their current standards, instead of just a localization of an old game. The fact that it was announced as a “rebuilt from the ground-up” game may give audiences the wrong idea. If it were a full remake like Kiwami 2, it would be a different story. Hell, even I was initially confused at the announcement once I saw the actual gameplay videos.

 

[BruceWayne911]

I think you guys have people like me to blame. I didn't join the Yakuza train till 0. It feels like they are catering toward the new audiences. Yakuza not underground no more its hit the mainstream. Hopefully none of the West PC bullshit touches and ruins the series for you Day One Yakuza guys. How did you guys like 0, Judgement/Lost Judgement and Yakuza 7? Has the series changed at all from its roots?

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

I didn’t mean to blame anyone. That’s just how it is. As much as I want to deeply believe that entertainment like movies and video games are art, they’re a business. So companies adapt accordingly in order to survive. That’s just how it is.

I’d say the series has stayed relatively the same until Yakuza 7. Aside from the obvious gameplay changes, there have been minor presentation changes that I don’t like (but can live with).

 

[Dietsoap]

I think you guys have people like me to blame. I didn't join the Yakuza train till 0. It feels like they are catering toward the new audiences. Yakuza not underground no more its hit the mainstream. Hopefully none of the West PC bullshit touches and ruins the series for you Day One Yakuza guys. How did you guys like 0, Judgement/Lost Judgement and Yakuza 7? Has the series changed at all from its roots?

Honestly I think these stupid fireballs and laser beams look like they'd be fun to play around with, I just hope it's all optional for a first-time playthrough.

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

Knowing RGG, they’re probably gonna shoehorn some half-assed, unskippable-until-after-the-intro-mission side story introducing these new mechanics, like how they did with the Majima construction and hostess missions in Kiwami 2. While I grew to like both of those eventually, none of their aspects were incorporated into the combat.

I’ve barely played Ishin, but I can understand some people being turned off by the inclusion of these fireball power things into the combat, even if they are totally optional. Yakuza wasn’t always the most immersive series, but what was there was enough. After Yakuza 7 basically broke all sense of immersion and went full-on video game (at least for me) with its crazy RPG antics, and Lost Judgement adopted some of those aspects in its combat, it makes sense for RGG to add some of that nonsense to Ishin.

* For the record, I liked both Yakuza 7 and Lost Judgement for what they were. But for me, they pale in comparison to previous entries in the series.