110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

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Its not like you are wrong, in fact your points people about relation features<>costs/budget are critical, like it or not.
Its just a gut feeling, true, a cloud. But I don't want to step off it yet, is so cozy and soft cloud.
I respect the liking for a reduced game, but personally I lack words to define the void I'll feel with a 2D rpg, visual novel Shenmue ending again personally.
But if that's the last shot, and I mean that or nothing, with Yu's blessing... Then its ok, meanwhile Im throwing rocks at the idea (with respect)
But anyway, Shenmue IV do exists, its in the oven, to be announced soon, and it looks awesome. And its expanded, not reduced, thats why has been delayed.

Edit: I realize that I may implied your many fair points as dooming, I didn't mean that. You people are doing great holding our expectances from time to time.
And I like all your comments but I got marble finger syndrome, ykwim
 
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As much as I like the idea of finishing Shenmue as a visual novel, I‘m not sure if making a visual novel from scratch would be that much cheaper than making S4 in Unreal 4.
 

Kenzo38130

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As much as I like the idea of finishing Shenmue as a visual novel, I‘m not sure if making a visual novel from scratch would be that much cheaper than making S4 in Unreal 4.
It would be much much much much cheaper, you only need some voice actors (optional), some characters/backgrounds art, the rest is not that complicated and there are many tools to make visual novels on ue. But I would hate a Shenmue visual novel, to be honest, I don't think I would play it.
 

Spaghetti

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Yeah, I wouldn't be very interested in the series continuing via an official Shenmue VN either (though I really like the fan works that have been going around).

I'd much prefer a manga or novelisation if all that can be achieved is a "cheap" continuation, at least that way Shenmue retains some visual dynamism whether you're reading sequential art or seeing scenes play out in your mind.
 
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i don't get it. i thought shenmue 4 was going to be made with the profits from S3's sales?
It sold okay but not nearly enough to fund Shenmue 4. Air Twister is probably where that money was spent. Yu Suzuki's a smart guy. He likely got paid way more than he put into Air Twister by Apple.
 
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It has to be such a tricky situation:
- knowing for fact that S4=Real Deal
- willing to share and bring so much hapiness into the fans.
- but doing so would imply throwing a spot of undesired attention to people aware of it, people caring and doing good for the series.
It could escalate to ciberbullying, due to the brain mechanism that turn fans into iluminados.
And finally harm the whole project integrity.
This is why Im thinking there's so many buzz, so many pre-E3 gut feel moments, but yet no announce (or denies, beyond transcripted from japanese "at the moment")
The only possible way to get S4 is keep it under secret. Anti-leak methods May be used, starting at job selection.
Another reason for news fading out, could be: YS shows prototype/s to one single very well thought previously, publisher with resources. "Has anyone else seen this?" (its YS jawdropping stuff) said the publisher. "No, you are our first choice" said YS. "Lets go. Shielded." A single shot. Low chance I admit, but still.

Edit: sorry for the free movie lol
 
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From a game development standpoint Shenmue 4 is looking pretty good. If I was Yu Suzuki I'd say

"All the models are done for the main characters, facial animations too, we can reuse Bailu from S3, combat system only needs a little bit of work and we can straight up reuse the AI routines for the NPCs from Shenmue 3"

the rest is they'd have to make is: new voice acting, new animations, new moves, new minigames, new environments, cutscenes, scripting, music and possibly sound design.

that does sound like a lot of stuff but even if Shenmue 4 isn't in development right now, the game is around 30% done.
 
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From a game development standpoint Shenmue 4 is looking pretty good. If I was Yu Suzuki I'd say

"All the models are done for the main characters, facial animations too, we can reuse Bailu from S3, combat system only needs a little bit of work and we can straight up reuse the AI routines for the NPCs from Shenmue 3"

the rest is they'd have to make is: new voice acting, new animations, new moves, new minigames, new environments, cutscenes, scripting, music and possibly sound design.

that does sound like a lot of stuff but even if Shenmue 4 isn't in development right now, the game is around 30% done.
@spud1897 What do you think?
 
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I'm a big advocate of them reusing the systems and models from the 3rd game and improving upon them. It would save a tonne of money I'm sure.

Shenmue 3 visuals felt most dated because of the relatively basic facial and character animations. I do wonder and maybe some more familiar with development on UE can chime in on this; whether it’s easy to re-rig existing models with updated animation or brand new models would be required?
 
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spud1897

spud1897

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Shenmue 3 visuals felt most dated because of the relatively basic facial and character animations. I do wonder and maybe some more familiar with development on UE can chime in on this; whether it’s easy to re-rig existing models with updated animation or brand new models would be required?
I'd imagine they can and just polish this sort of stuff without having to use totally new models. I'm no expert though.

I'd also add that with all the base systems in place they'd have significantly more time to focus in on the story/character elements of S4.

If they don't do that then, as much as it pains me to say it, we're massively in the shit with the future of the series as a gaming title
 
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Dragon & Phoenix uses original Shenmue DC models over a new rendering pipeline and you all can judge the neat results. Thats a proof of quality for nice modeling, the way it behaves at a more modern lightning system.
Now, the same thing (focusing in light and rendering, as the rest of the pyramid is covered) with Shenmue 3 assets not only qualifies for a far more than nice look, but it's whats normally the way to go. Reusing (wisely) as much is possible, reducing costs.

...im having a deja vu with this discussion

Edit: about adding new anim to S3 models, take in consideration re-rig its not the same as re-target. With the first its editing/making a skeleton and its mandatory if the new anims have "tech gap" (sorry, im not english and just hobbyist). For new actions that doesnt conflict with our existing bones structure we use re-target.
Pro modelers like at YS.net always prepare their models for foreseeable tech gaps, so reusing involves as less tweaking is possible. And there's no comparison with the work load of starting from scratch. Normally the issues are in facial anims, as Yu pointed (and states they're covered) because of the subtle and wide range of moves involved they're very picky in bone number/order, etc. However, body anims are very swappable with the proper care taken previously on modeling stage. Not exclusive of UE or Unity, its a feature from available in the creative tool of choice (blender, 3dmax,c4d..).
 
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BruceWayne911

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I'd imagine they can and just polish this sort of stuff without having to use totally new models. I'm no expert though.

I'd also add that with all the base systems in place they'd have significantly more time to focus in on the story/character elements of S4.

If they don't do that then, as much as it pains me to say it, we're massively in the shit with the future of the series as a gaming titles

I thought the whole purpose of using unreal engine and starting everything from scratch was to be able to transfer and expound upon assets already in place.
 
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We can also see it this way: In 2022 we had the anime, so perhaps in 2023...

But I see vital that the anime continue, we must fight for that, It benefits the franchise on so many levels.
 

Spaghetti

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I do wonder and maybe some more familiar with development on UE can chime in on this; whether it’s easy to re-rig existing models with updated animation or brand new models would be required?
New models technically not required, but I wouldn't expect Shenmue IV to use 1:1 Shenmue III models, in the same way Shenmue II exhibited changes and refinements to character models and animation.

Ultimately the issue is Shenmue being a game with vast quantities of spoken dialogue. More than anybody can hand animate, so an algorithmic/automated solution with human touch ups/quality assurance is required. That's what was done in the previous games and Shenmue III. I have fuzzy memories of @LemonHaze telling me they used the same third party software solution for all three, so maybe he can chip in to elaborate or correct me if I've gotten the details wrong.

They experimented with a number of different solutions for Shenmue III. The one we actually got to see, if super briefly, is during the 2017 Gamescom alpha teaser. There's a shot where Shenhua clearly mouths "Hakkason" (Bailu Village), which is pretty well animated considering it can be lip-read, but obviously in the final game they opted for a faster but lower fidelity solution for their workload.

So where does that leave Shenmue IV? Well there's two ways to go about it:

A design-side solution would be to min/max where an animator's time goes. I'm about to make the dreaded Yakuza comparisons, but think about how that series has well animated cutscenes but dialogue in moment-to-moment gameplay is either extremely basic mouth flaps or straight up text boxes. Not convinced this would work for Shenmue, but it's an option.

A technology-side solution would be to find new third party software that produces smoother animation results when interpolating between mouth flaps and blendshapes, building something within what the UE tools provide, or exploring the whole host of new options for facial mocap since Shenmue III released. There are a number of inexpensive solutions available that weren't around a few years ago, but there's still a human labour element that has to be considered and this would have to be coupled with beefing up the animation staff.
 
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spud1897

spud1897

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I thought the whole purpose of using unreal engine and starting everything from scratch was to be able to transfer and expound upon assets already in place.
Exactly that. So my point being there's no real excuses for them not hammering the story.
 
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