What is your ancestry?

[pilman]

Hello Shenmuedojo, just wanted to see what everyones background here is if you are comfortable sharing?

I was born in the Chicago area, my mother is of mostly German stock/catholic background with some French ancestry as well. Her family grew up in northern Wisconsin and came over around 1850 from a region called Saarland which used to be part of France. That side of the family used to descend from a line of judges. My mother converted to Judaism when she met my father. My moms family descended from farmers and also my grandpa built windows for the skyscrapers in Chicago. He has always been big into living off the land, hunting, fishing, he had a wood cottage that my brother and I would visit as kids.

My father was born in Chicago, his mothers family were Jews who came from somewhere in the baltic region of Europe probably Lithuania. My fathers dads side were Kohens ( claim to descend from the priests of Jerusalem) who migrated from Southern Romania around 1900. I think they may have been "fusgeyers" who were expelled or left Romania by foot. ( http://www.billgladstone.ca/?p=3065 ) the family settled in Quebec Canada and later migrated to Chicago on the west side in an area called Lawndale. They were tailors which was common as a trade for Jews in Chicago and we had some in our family who were also wrestlers/boxers. My great grandma ran a deli. Possibility the family came to Romania from somewhere else, apparently there were many Jews who migrated from Turkey of Sephardic background although for some reason the family was constantly mistaken as Sicilian and show significant Italian in our DNA.

My wife is from Colombia, she was born on the Caribbean coast of Barranquilla and also spent much of her childhood on the island of Providencia. She grew up in Bogota. While she does not have as much information on her ancestry, many Colombians tend to be mestizo or on the Caribbean coast of triracial descent. Her fathers a mathematician, a chess hobbyist and perhaps a chess master, artist and builds small scale models of homes. Her fathers side came from near the Medellin area also referred to as the paisa region. Medellin is famous for Pablo Escobar but also the plastic surgery region of the world. Medellin is also famous for its doctors, leather and being a general tech driven city. My wifes mom is a nurse and the family in Barranquilla enjoy salsa, cumbia and carnivales which is similar to the carnival in Brazil. My wifes mom also ran a restaurant and cooks Empanadas, Ajiaco, Sancocho, rice and beans, etc. Some family members served in the Colombian military.

 

[Kodama]

American mutt :)

 

[SCQ]

Ireland, Scotland, Russia, Georgia, South Africa to name a few. They mostly ended up in the UK because of the world wars and other conflicts.

 

[Mittens2317]

I never understood the American fascination with ancestry. Especially the whole "I'm German/Mexican/Syrian on my mom's side, but Nigerian/Italian/Peruvian on my dad's". No mate, you're just American.

 

[DaMulder]

I never understood the American fascination with ancestry. Especially the whole "I'm German/Mexican/Syrian on my mom's side, but Nigerian/Italian/Peruvian on my dad's". No mate, you're just American.

Just to open that wound again: No, they're not American. Only native Americans are actually Americans. The others are a weird mix of people from all over the world who were - at some point - immigrants, which is just fine. People do need to accept that, though.

As for me, I am mostly German. My ancestry is not well researched but what there is is all German. However, there was a Polish farmworker involved during my mom's grandmother's days... but nobody ever talks about that in detail.

 

[Revan]

Don't know my full ancestry but can tell you I'm 50% British 50% Portuguese.

 

[Mittens2317]

You can't work off that logic @DaMulder, else nobody is from where they say. Let's take what you call German and Polish. Did you know that general area in Europe is where the original Britons come from?

History is messy, and there's no such thing as Irish or Native American blood. Your ancestors are from where they were born and raised, and so are you. Otherwise every claim to be from a certain area would be shot down based on the ancestry of your ancestors.

I was born and raised in England. Having Irish grandparents does not make me Irish, and my passport agrees.

 

[Bambi]

Having Irish grandparents does not make me Irish, and my passport agrees.

It does however make you eligible for an Irish passport. Something you may want to look into.

 

[DaMulder]

You can't work off that logic @DaMulder, else nobody is from where they say. Let's take what you call German and Polish. Did you know that general area in Europe is where the original Britons come from?

History is messy, and there's no such thing as Irish or Native American blood. Your ancestors are from where they were born and raised, and so are you. Otherwise every claim to be from a certain area would be shot down based on the ancestry of your ancestors.

I was born and raised in England. Having Irish grandparents does not make me Irish, and my passport agrees.

Sure, your point makes sense. But especially the US is a special case. It's one of the youngest countries on earth and apart from the natives, nobody who is living there has ancestors there reaching more than 300 years back.

But yeah, if you look at your national identity, I suppose you are English, I am German and all Americans who were born there are Americans. But you should acknowledge that in the US this thing with identity is difficult. Millions of black or hispanic Americans do not feel like they really belong. But that's another story for another day...

 

[Kodama]

Sure, your point makes sense. But especially the US is a special case. It's one of the youngest countries on earth and apart from the natives, nobody who is living there has ancestors there reaching more than 300 years back.

But yeah, if you look at your national identity, I suppose you are English, I am German and all Americans who were born there are Americans. But you should acknowledge that in the US this thing with identity is difficult. Millions of black or hispanic Americans do not feel like they really belong. But that's another story for another day...

America is too big and too tribal. Everyone has to try and find a group they belong too instead of just being a generic American. It's a weird thing that can only happen in a nation this big and diverse...

 

[pilman]

Sure, your point makes sense. But especially the US is a special case. It's one of the youngest countries on earth and apart from the natives, nobody who is living there has ancestors there reaching more than 300 years back.

But yeah, if you look at your national identity, I suppose you are English, I am German and all Americans who were born there are Americans. But you should acknowledge that in the US this thing with identity is difficult. Millions of black or hispanic Americans do not feel like they really belong. But that's another story for another day...

Even many modern European, Middle Eastern, and Latin American countries have constructed new identities. The whole ethnic identity gets really complex because some confuse nationality and ethnicity for race or dna. I can give some perfect scenarios.

My wife is Colombian but what makes her a Colombian? Colombia and the hispanic peoples are not homogenous but many share the same ancestors from mixing with each other, many share a common heritage, language, cultural norms, music and identity. If you break down the Hispanic people, the term Hispanic may only be appropriate for those from the Iberian peninsula. Depending on the country, you have various groups such as Indigenous, Mestizo, Castizo, Mullatos and even full blood Spaniards. When you start to get into south cone countries like Argentina, Uruguay, etc. it becomes even more confusing since many Argentinans have Italian or German ancestry. In Chile many have Turko or Syrian/Palestinian ancestry.

Just Colombia alone gets even more complex. Within Colombia my wife descends from people called Costenas or coastal people from the Caribbean (think Shakira) she is from Barranquilla which has a large mix of triracials but also a significant levantine population that fled during the reign of the ottoman empire from syria israel/palestinian areas and lebanon. Many integrated with people in Barranquilla and there was also some German as well as Sephardic Jewish migration. These individuals are quite different from say Paisas in Colombia from Medellin which are from the Antioquia department and genetically are quite isolated from the rest of the population.

In Bogota are rolos so you will see many light skin Colombians with blonde hair and blue eyes but also castizos who look majority European with slight indigenous admix.

In certain areas to the far northwest you have the guijara desert and the Wayuu indigenous and also in Amazonas various indigenous tribes. Sometimes these individuals will look identical to other mestizos but in some cases some may look Euro dominant, other times they will have Spanish last names as the tribes are like their own nations within a nation.

As you can probably imagine, this can be very confusing to an American who may see a Colombian that looks more African in origin however in many cases that individual may actually be genetically indigenous (see Mosquito Coast Nicaragua). Genetics are a really strange thing. Colombia used to also constitute a much larger area than today which included Ecuador, Venezuela, Panama and so these individuals likely all share ancestors while the Mestizo are a unique fusion of the indigenous and the immigrants.

Regarding my ancestry, I could technically say I am an American national of German, Russian and Romanian ancestry...or could I? That is where things also get complex, some of these nations the borders changed significantly and certain areas lay in other countries today. We have new modern states like Kosovo or the remains of Yugoslavia, certain areas that used to be part of the imperialist Russian empire are now independent in the baltic region, I think this is perhaps where language, culture and identity comes into play.

Russia is made up of ethnic Russian people who proclaim to be slavic but you have other ethnic minorities like kypchaks, armenians, caucasians like Chechnyans, Romani Gypsies, Altai turkic peoples, some which predate modern Russians of slavic background.

Romania as a perfect example consisted of a former land called Wallachia but today contains Transylvania which was a independent kingdom and then part of Hungary, additionally certain territory belonged to Ukraine such as areas of Bessarabia and the Austrian Hungarian empire.

My fathers own family did not identify as Russians or Romanians because they were not seen in those areas as being ethnic Russian or Romanian, on our race the Russians marked Hebrew. Our last name was in Hebrew and we do know that many Jews were merchants who frequently traveled from the middle east into europe, however at the same time, even from thousands of years ago various people joined the Jews and before that the Israelite people. Josephus mentions how many Romans converted and married middle eastern jewish men and before that there were forced conversions of idumeans, biblically Ruth was a moabite and so the most we can say is the culture is middle eastern with jews being a diaspora population consisting of various Mediterranean peoples and Semitic speakers.

Even in a country such as Japan I know there are some conversations about peoples who may predate the Japanese such as the Ainu and Ryuukan, it is all subjective so I am not an expert on this topic but there are so many things we can learn about history.

It all becomes complicated.

 

[OldFarT]

Pontian greek, my grandparents escaped the genocide in Turkey.

It's all where you came from and to pass it on to the next generation. To make sure traditions are not forgotten. I would do any thing to get more details about the regions, customs that is in my bloodline. But Turkey still does not acknowledge the Genocide

The USA is pretty bad at teaching it's own history. We don't really go into what really happened to the native Americans or the horrors of slavery.

My son got into a verbal fight with his (1st grade) teacher because she would call them Indians and he would correct her .of course me going into detail about what really transpired to the Natives of this land. Loss of culture, Identity, religion, and way of life. He would bring that up to her. She didn't like us at all. Lol

 

[Gavan]

My wife is Colombian but what makes her a Colombian? Colombia and the hispanic peoples are not homogenous but many share the same ancestors from mixing with each other, many share a common heritage, language, cultural norms, music and identity. If you break down the Hispanic people, the term Hispanic may only be appropriate for those from the Iberian peninsula. Depending on the country, you have various groups such as Indigenous, Mestizo, Castizo, Mullatos and even full blood Spaniards. When you start to get into south cone countries like Argentina, Uruguay, etc. it becomes even more confusing since many Argentinans have Italian or German ancestry. In Chile many have Turko or Syrian/Palestinian ancestry.

Interesting. I lived in Peru for 6 years (my ex girlfriend is Peruvian) and I love Latin America and its culture/history. You are right Latin America is extremely varied when it comes to races and ancestry. I find it ridiculous when people use the term "Hispanic" or "Latino" to describe a race. There are white, black, indigenous, mestizo, mulato, even ASIAN latinos (quite a few Japanese and Chinese in Peru for instance).

I myself am 100% Belgian (Flemish) btw

 

[Matthew]

I have no idea about my ancestry other than that I was born in Germany. My mother is German and my father British. Grandparents are jewish but I personally am not religious.

 

[staplepuffs27]

White hispanic I guess. German on my dad's side.

 

[Mr. OL]

Just to open that wound again: No, they're not American. Only native Americans are actually Americans.

Many "Native Americans" don't even like the term "Native American," as it applies a label to them that only exists because their ancestors happened to be oppressed by Europeans who moved in and set up shop. They, themselves, didn't establish a country and government under the name of "America"; that's why terms like "Apache Nation" or "Sioux Nation" exist. That doesn't mean that they aren't American, but if preference matters for anything, then it's something to take into account.

In the end, "American" is a just a name that applies to anyone who happens to be a citizen. Nationality doesn't really exist in blood, only in superficial labels.

 

[pilman]

Many "Native Americans" don't even like the term "Native American," as it applies a label to them that only exists because their ancestors happened to be oppressed by Europeans who moved in and set up shop. They, themselves, didn't establish a country and government under the name of "America"; that's why terms like "Apache Nation" or "Sioux Nation" exist. That doesn't mean that they aren't American, but if preference matters for anything, then it's something to take into account.

In the end, "American" is a just a name that applies to anyone who happens to be a citizen. Nationality doesn't really exist in blood, only in superficial labels.

Valid points, this reminds me of other groups for example

Assyrians
Basque
Aromanians
Circassians
Druze
Kurds
Copts
Amazigh/Berbers
Sami
Tartars
Samaritans

etc. etc. for any I missed.


Within pan ethnic nations, sometimes it seems the ancestry can become confusing for those not familiar with those areas. I found out recently that many ethnic Volga Germans, Belarusians and various other groups were all clustered as "Russian" when they came to the United States despite not actually being Russian. Some groups predate the idea of what we commonly refer to as ethnicity, some of the more complex being the Druze, Jews, Samaritans, Assyrians, Native Americans which may fall under "ethno-religious" groups. The particular complexity that is involved usually has to do with being endogamous where the previous society was a small tribal population with a limited number of founding members but in some cases may have faced a population reduction and ended up marrying primarily within becoming more homogeneous. It becomes especially complicated when populations are culturally influenced by a new subset population. Latin America is interesting that Spanish became dominant including the naming structure, the same thing happened to many Jews who settled in Germany which primarily took Germanic last names and adopted Yiddish or a Germanic-Hebrew mix dialect with very few retaining their names.

Other cases, Native American identity is also quite complex because in the United States we have the federally recognized tribes and then there are various unrecognized tribes. Some tribes may require quantum blood evidence of what one has descended as, if memory serves me right I believe evidence of having an ancestor on the dawes rolls is required, and then in other cases there are sometimes individuals lacking genetic evidence of "Native American" ancestry but are still accepted as being part of a particular nation if they are accepted legally. There was a court ruling if I recall regarding Cherokee Freedman, the descendants of slaves which allowed "citizenship" within the Cherokee nation.

I bring this up because I remember in high school, I was required to do a project on our family history and it was very awkward trying to explain what exactly I was.

Please feel free to correct any information that may be incorrect here.

 

[SickOctopus]

Wholeheartedly agree with Mittens that ethnicity and national identity do not always necessarily have to correlate. Obviously, many will feel an affinity towards the country or region of ethnic origin, especially if they have had significant influences from that area, in which case, I can understand the concept of dual-nationality. However, I honestly struggle to comprehend the mindset of some people who are of a certain ethnicity, but have never visited or had any real cultural exposure to the "homeland", so to speak.

Case-in-point, an ex-girlfriend of mine, who was of Afro-Caribbean origin. She was born and raised in the UK, with a strong Mancunian accent. She had never, in her entire life, visited Jamaica (or any other Caribbean country) where the family on her mother's side are from, nor had she visited Malawi (or elsewhere in Africa), where her father was from. She wasn't introduced to any Malawian/African culture, as her dad was practically absent from her life, and she had almost no exposure to Jamaican culture, as her mother, like herself, was born and raised in England. She also repeatedly mocked her ethnic heritage, and displayed almost no knowledge of African or Caribbean history or culture.

Then one day, she suddenly decided she was Malawian. She started adopting a false accent, and said she was yearning to go "home".

Dumbfounded, I explained to her that I could not understand the logic in her newfound adoption of a country she had never visited or been exposed to in any way. I was truly trying my best to get my head around this as diplomatically as possible. Then she told me it's not about logic, and that she just had a "calling", something inside telling her to come "home". I tried again to rationalise this and talk some sense into her, as I was concerned that she was suffering from some kind of identity crisis. I told her that she is a human and does not get "callings" or animal instincts, only to be branded a "racist", lol.

Obviously, this is an extreme example, and she was a bit of a moron in general, and I wouldn't be surprised if she had a double-digit IQ, but yeah, for some reason, I just felt the need to rant about that.

My mother is Dutch and my grandfather Greek, but as someone who was born and mostly raised in the UK, if I claimed to be anything other than British, my judgement would surely be in doubt.

 

[SCQ]

Can someone here explain to me what "being british" is to them? I mean other than having a British passport. I understand being English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh since they are all nations with specific identities tied to them but I don't really understand what "being British" really is since I see no real identity tied to it specifically.

 

[SickOctopus]

Can someone here explain to me what "being british" is to them? I mean other than having a British passport. I understand being English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh since they are all nations with specific identities tied to them but I don't really understand what "being British" really is since I see no real identity tied to it specifically.

That's a valid point, actually. As you rightly pointed out, all three constituent nations in Britain, or four in the UK, have their own cultures, identity and languages (although unofficially, almost everyone primarily speaks English).

As a result, it's only natural that I would identify more with the country in which I grew up (in my case, England). To be honest, I have a tendency to say I am British out of habit, rather than personal connection.