Project Update #104: Shenmue 3 by Ys Net

[danielmann861]

It was definitely the PS4 version. A physical PC version was available from the beginning, but people begged them for a physical PS4 version. YsNet secured it through Sony, if I remember correctly, about a week or two into the campaign.

Ironically, there wasn't much support/demand for a physical PC version when the campaign began

So yeah, my theory is the huge price disparity is that the game was always intended to be a budget release and the physical release was considered both limited and exclusive to the campaign and thus came at a premium price. Now the scope has changed and a publisher is on board, it's a full priced release with regular retail editions, so hence why there's pricing issues.

I think that's what happened with Bloodstained too to be fair, in a different manner. I assume once a publisher picked that game up, they decided it needed a budget price to sell, and hence it was cheaper than backers paid.

Kickstarters really aren't easy endeavours. Asking for money and trying to plan and predict what's going to happen over the course of several years is no easy feat.

Ahhh yes you're right. I do remember now. I remembered there were pleas for a physical version but I couldn't remember which platform it was for.

Indeed. It's almost like Kickstarter isn't a platform to purchase, rather it's a platform to finance and gauge interest among investors. Almost like things are destined to change throughout course of development and this is just the nature of the beast.

I mean we're literally getting a bigger game than he initially thought it would be and people still get angry about this all because they don't have the game printed on a disc to put on their shelves or what not.

There's fortunately a few level headed people, but then there's also others like the one guy who states "I backed the PS4 version, but with this crap they have pulled I will be requesting a refund too". Yeah, I'm sure you are entitled to a refund, you fucking moron

Yeah because the PC version really affects him as a PS4 player...some stupid people out there.

 

[Mugen]

I think DRM free was never mention as an option at all

You might be correct. In the discussions on KS a post is quoted where it was said by YSnet rep that the game data would be om the disc. If there would still be online connection needed then yeah it wouldnt be that much added value or future-proofing of the software. I have reached out to them about this, hope they consider at least digital drm free later.

 

[punkmanced]

...That was an unexpectedly massive update. I was scrolling down for a while before I realized that it wasn’t the usual “PC requirements” talk that I was skipping, but actual in-depth details about recent achievements.

First off, tip of the hat for the way they responded to the EGS backlash. They definitely handled it with respect by offering multiple options.

As for some of the other big lines:

-Baisha reworked?
I’m intrigued. It seems like it might be a more streamlined but intense experience.

-Character perspective system axed?
Never really been a fan of that one, so it’s no big loss for me. Interesting concept, but I’m fine playing as Ryo.

I was really hoping for the “high ground battle system” and “Magic maze” options to be included when Deep Silver & co. came into the picture. (...And “throws” too ). Not sure how I feel about DLC being introduced to the franchise, but considering how “unique” this specific game will be in the series, if we can potentially get more features included that way then I’m all for it.

I know it’s years away, but this entire journey makes me really look forward to Shenmue 4.
Think of how easier that development cycle will be. No KS most likely; core team already assembled; important assets already created; less time wasted; etc.
Pure game development (and improvements) without many of the inconveniences, I would imagine. Nice!

 

[Reprise]

When did they ever promise DRM-free?

Tell a lie often enough and it becomes true. According to the internet, people paid money on Kickstarter for DRM-free (they did not), physical editions with several discs containing all data (they did not) and a Steam version (they did not).

In fact, all they paid for was this:

 

[SCQ]

You might be correct. In the discussions on KS a post is quoted where it was said by YSnet rep that the game data would be om the disc. If there would still be online connection needed then yeah it wouldnt be that much added value or future-proofing of the software. I have reached out to them about this, hope they consider at least digital drm free later.

I think that may be out of their hands now that they have passed a deal with EGS.

 

[mue 26]

Lovely stuff this update. Ys have been clear about things and have clearly done everything they can to put this right.

 

[Mugen]

Tell a lie often enough and it becomes true. According to the internet, people paid money on Kickstarter for DRM-free (they did not), physical editions with several discs containing all data (they did not) and a Steam version (they did not).

In fact, all they paid for was this:

View attachment 3404

View attachment 3405

Well there was this, as pointed out in the KS comments

Update 85: Survey Info #2: We have reached the $7M stretch goal! & ｢Toy Capsule Box Set｣ is now available. · Shenmue 3

日本語はこちら　　　　　Hello Backers! With the combined Kickstarter and Slacker Backer campaigns, we have reached the $7M stretch goal! Having reached this goal, the Battle System Expanded: AI Battling will be included! Thank you so much for your support!!　　　　　　　　Battle System Expanded: AI...

www.kickstarter.com

So surely there were clear indications at the very least. If not as clear as the indications of a Steam launch.

 

[Mugen]

I think that may be out of their hands now that they have passed a deal with EGS.

Exclusivity is only a year, then it should be their choice one would assume? Still, I would have appreciated if they had gone for it and it would have been "more right over time".

 

[Reprise]

Well there was this, as pointed out in the KS comments

Update 85: Survey Info #2: We have reached the $7M stretch goal! & ｢Toy Capsule Box Set｣ is now available. · Shenmue 3

日本語はこちら　　　　　Hello Backers! With the combined Kickstarter and Slacker Backer campaigns, we have reached the $7M stretch goal! Having reached this goal, the Battle System Expanded: AI Battling will be included! Thank you so much for your support!!　　　　　　　　Battle System Expanded: AI...

www.kickstarter.com

So surely there were clear indications at the very least. If not as clear as the indications of a Steam launch.

Well after the vast majority of backers paid money...

 

[Mugen]

Well after the vast majority of backers paid money...

For a "copy of Shenmue 3" though. Does anyone by the word really get a genuine copy of said software now, one could argue? I get it is mostly semantics now a days though, but we are receiving "licence to" or "access to" software rather I guess.

 

[Amir]

I feel like the Character Perspective System would be perfect for DLC. Seeing existing events from an alternate viewpoint would be non-essential, but a nice bonus for those willing to pay a little more.

 

[thefavoriteplay]

I feel like the Character Perspective System would be perfect for DLC. Seeing existing events from an alternate viewpoint would be non-essential, but a nice bonus for those willing to pay a little more.

Yeah I think that sounds awesome. It could be a side set of missions that is not required for the full story. Just alternate takes and that can help tide us over until the next game.

 

[danielmann861]

Tell a lie often enough and it becomes true. According to the internet, people paid money on Kickstarter for DRM-free (they did not), physical editions with several discs containing all data (they did not) and a Steam version (they did not).

In fact, all they paid for was this:

View attachment 3404

View attachment 3405

I'm getting downvoted on Reddit for mentioning this right now...specifically the "you didn't fund a Steam version...you funded a PC version" line.

I guess some people really don't like cold hard truth.

My favorite response being this one.

I'm really tired of hearing this "BuT ThEY diDN't SpeCiFY wHiCH PLaTForM" argument. Its not an excuse to launch your game exclusively on a storefront that didn't exist when the project was announced and make everyone who backed the game be required to create an account on said new platform.

OMG, I didn't realize what a pain it was to take two minutes out of your life to create an account. The height of first world problems. It's not like waiting near 20 years for a game or nothing.

Going forward I'm sure people will be making sure kickstarter creators list specifically which platforms their games will launch on and backers will be sure to read that information. However anything up until the point EGS was created you have to be forgiving on the side of the backers because its their money and they could not have predicted this.

In theory that is all well and good but how can anyone realistically specify what platform they're gonna wind up on when things constantly change?

Take Bloodstained for example. When they announced it, they promised a PSVita version. A version of the game that they ultimately couldn't deliver. This is why you need to take Kickstarter at face value. Like all investments, it's a gamble and you're not necessarily guaranteed anything.

It's all well and good to say "specify the platform" but the reality is vastly different and it has been shown a few times now.

This is why "Subject to Change" was there in black and white...but why bother reading or thinking logic.

 

[Wolfgame]

I'm very excited about the extra stretch goals that were reached.

 

[Tosh]

@danielmann861

i'm pretty sure a ton of people think that spending money on a Kickstarter project
is 1:1 the exact same thing, as pre ordering something on Amazon or PSN or whatever.

i mean its super easy to tell, that a lot of people just throw their money into something because it sounds great
but they are not reading any of the FAQ or info sections about "what does it mean to kickstart a project".

just imagine the reactions, if YS Net would have canceled S3 after 1-2 years of development
and all the money would be gone ...
people just think they will get exactly what was "offered" because they "bought it" on KS,
without even realising, that nobody can 100% guarantee that the final product will match the goals of the campaign.

people who think that every deviation is a 100% scam,
are exactly those people who think that kickstarting is just a different word for pre order.

they are 100% wrong with that assumption, but because there is a lot of them, they still think they are right.

 

[danielmann861]

@danielmann861

i'm pretty sure a ton of people think that spending money on a Kickstarter project
is 1:1 the exact same thing, as pre ordering something on Amazon or PSN or whatever.

i mean its super easy to tell, that a lot of people just throw their money into something because it sounds great
but they are not reading any of the FAQ or info sections about "what does it mean to kickstart a project".

just imagine the reactions, if YS Net would have canceled S3 after 1-2 years of development
and all the money would be gone ...
people just think they will get exactly what was "offered" because they "bought it" on KS,
without even realising, that nobody can 100% guarantee that the final product will match the goals of the campaign.

people who think that every deviation is a 100% scam,
are exactly those people who think that kickstarting is just a different word for pre order.

they are 100% wrong with that assumption, but because there is a lot of them, they still think they are right.

Truth. I put it this way in return on Reddit.

Let's say I was crowdfunding a Game on PC and I specifically said I was gonna make it available on Steam Day One.

I get the funding and make the game, but a problem arises. Maybe Steam looks at my game and says "that goes against our guidelines" or maybe they change the way they do business and offer me a smaller return than initially expected

So I move to another storefront because they can offer me a better deal or they will accept my game the way it is.

Now I'm left in a conundrum where I've promised my backers one thing but can't deliver due to changes beyond my control or changes that don't financially benefit me.

Hence why it is maybe best to never specifically promise something on Kickstarter without stating that this is all subject to change. It's the nature of the beast. It's the nature of investment.

I could buy a house tomorrow with decent resell prospects...doesn't mean that property value will be the same four years down the road in this ever changing landscape. The more people realize that the same can be said for Kickstarter, the better.

 

[WuyingRen]

Yeah I think that sounds awesome. It could be a side set of missions that is not required for the full story. Just alternate takes and that can help tide us over until the next game.

This would be a terrible idea. Not so much the idea itself (a DLC episode where you play as other characters might work), but taking content that had originally been planned to be in the game and placing it behind a paywall would create more outrage than we’ve seen generated by the Epic deal.

 

[SCQ]

I haven't been following shenmue news all that much until the recent scandals, is the character perspective thing what Yu Suzuki was talking about when he said you would play as other characters during the story or something like that?

 

[Tsukuyomimagi99]

I haven't been following shenmue news all that much until the recent scandals, is the character perspective thing what Yu Suzuki was talking about when he said you would play as other characters during the story or something like that?

Yes during the Three Kingdoms Warring Siege minigame you were supposed to take control of either Shenhua or Ren. There you would use Ryo's fighting skills, Shenhua's negotiation skills, and Ren's street smarts to supposedly rescue Shenhua's adopted father from the Chi You Men. Baisha however has been scrapped for development reasons and replaced with a castle. I am assuming the minigame will still take place but you won't be switching characters. So think of it like the Yellow Head infiltration in Shenmue 2.

 

[thefavoriteplay]

This would be a terrible idea. Not so much the idea itself (a DLC episode where you play as other characters might work), but taking content that had originally been planned to be in the game and placing it behind a paywall would create more outrage than we’ve seen generated by the Epic deal.

I'm coming from the POV of "what if it never gets put in the game at all." Didn't they say it's been cut? So why not DLC?