How I Would "Fix" Shenmue 3's Story

[SteveT90]

So you’ll agree it lacks story , the fighting is worse than a game 18 years older with laggy controls , the stamina system is awful and the economic system makes no sense/ needs major improving but you still have the front to say it’s actually a good game ? Makes no sense at all.

The story moved forward a tiny amount but not much from 2 really

The only good thing if there is a 4th game (I personally don’t think there will be after this) is that the expectation of the game will be on the floor so it’d be hard to be disappointed

 

[spud1897]

So you’ll agree it lacks story , the fighting is worse than a game 18 years older with laggy controls , the stamina system is awful and the economic system makes no sense/ needs major improving but you still have the front to say it’s actually a good game ? Makes no sense at all.

The story moved forward a tiny amount but not much from 2 really

The only good thing if there is a 4th game (I personally don’t think there will be after this) is that the expectation of the game will be on the floor so it’d be hard to be disappointed

Because besides the stamina system I had no problems with it to the extent you did. 7/10 is, IMO, around right. And it's not a 'front'. I've made constructive and balanced assessments which you've not really countered.

The fighting was changed as they couldn't licence the VF system and they couldn't do throws as they shot all the mocap in YSNET due to budget. It lacked polish sure but has more depth than most realise. Ever see the motion slowdown or how combos can string together? Is it as good as the old system? No. But it's serviceable.

Also again I'll go back to my original reply. The story has moved on as per my original points. Lan Di being trained by the CYM as a kid? Are they not major plot changes despite the execution? Course I wanted more but when you had to rebuild everything and spent the majority of Dev time on that there was going to be a tradeoff.

My bigger question has always been was Shenmue 3 over ambitious? Probably but then with the kickstarter promises can you imagine had they cut areas further what people would have said?

Sure that's your experience and that's fine but for me it feels overblown.

 

[spud1897]

So you’ll agree it lacks story , the fighting is worse than a game 18 years older with laggy controls , the stamina system is awful and the economic system makes no sense/ needs major improving but you still have the front to say it’s actually a good game ? Makes no sense at all.

The story moved forward a tiny amount but not much from 2 really

The only good thing if there is a 4th game (I personally don’t think there will be after this) is that the expectation of the game will be on the floor so it’d be hard to be disappointed

As an aside too.... welcome to the forums :)

 

[SteveT90]

7/10 for a game with major flaws and no story development is madness but that’s your opinion so it is what it is

Mad to think a game like cyberpunk got a 7/10 when compared to a game as bad as this haha

 

[SteveT90]

Yeah spud I’ll try and stick to I&II .. I promise it isn’t all doom and gloom from me

 

[spud1897]

7/10 for a game with major flaws and no story development is madness but that’s your opinion so it is what it is

Mad to think a game like cyberpunk got a 7/10 when compared to a game as bad as this haha

Cyberpunk Metacritic 86 PC, PS5 75, 87 Series X, 57 PS4 and 61 XB1 = 73.2 dragged down by the piss poor last gen versions from a technical standpoint. Simply should never have come out on last gen for me

Taking those 2 out is a more accutate reflection especially now. Current gen and PC = 82.6 based off the 3 platforms. So a lot more than Shenmue 3.

So yeah that kinda knocks that on the head don't you think.

 

[Seaman]

Spud is clearly winning the encounter

 

[SteveT90]

If shenmue 3 is a 7/10 then cyberpunk should be a 982/10

Was just randomly putting a game out there that got widely panned (at the time at least) compared to something that was very bad and got defended beyond belief even though the quality of the game had massively regressed

 

[iknifaugood]

Cyberpunk Metacritic 86 PC, PS5 75, 87 Series X, 57 PS4 and 61 XB1 = 73.2 dragged down by the piss poor last gen versions from a technical standpoint. Simply should never have come out on last gen for me

Taking those 2 out is a more accutate reflection especially now. Current gen and PC = 82.6 based off the 3 platforms. So a lot more than Shenmue 3.

So yeah that kinda knocks that on the head don't you think.

It's worth pointing out that even though Cyberpunk suffered from massive backlash it still sold over 20 million units, is still being updated, CDPR is actively talking about a sequel, and the anime was super successful (though it was conceived as a standalone season). If Shenmue 3 resulted in those kind of yields, this conversation would look a lot different.

It's a good comparison because what CDPR and fans of Cyberpunk didn't do was just blindly defend the game; people were merciless against the game at launch and CDPR updated it gradually and "fixed" the game to be more in line with the hype. Obviously S3's flaws run far, far deeper than technical glitches that could be patched out but the dearth of DLC and post-launch support demonstrate a willingness to walk away from the project that you just don't see from "beloved" franchises.

 

[spud1897]

It's worth pointing out that even though Cyberpunk suffered from massive backlash it still sold over 20 million units, is still being updated, CDPR is actively talking about a sequel, and the anime was super successful (though it was conceived as a standalone season). If Shenmue 3 resulted in those kind of yields, this conversation would look a lot different.

It's a good comparison because what CDPR and fans of Cyberpunk didn't do was just blindly defend the game; people were merciless against the game at launch and CDPR updated it gradually and "fixed" the game to be more in line with the hype. Obviously S3's flaws run far, far deeper than technical glitches that could be patched out but the dearth of DLC and post-launch support demonstrate a willingness to walk away from the project that you just don't see from "beloved" franchises.

I would argue that there were some elements that were massively toxic towards Cyberpunk in the beginning towards CDPR and it clearly sold a bunch of copies on the initial hype which probably contributed to the outrage. I had it day 1 on PC and had no real issues but then on PS4 I'd have been pretty pissed.

YS himself even confirmed last year that they have taken on board all feedback and want to make a core Shenmue game but improve things for new players: https://gamerant.com/yu-suzuki-inte...er-shenmue-110-industries/?newsletter_popup=1

Also, there's not a blind defence here from anyone or the community. Looking at the flaws and balancing that out is exactly what many have been doing and will continue to do with many not having a massive issue with the flaws, though voicing them, on the overall experience on a personal level. Aside from story which we can all agree was lacking in execution. The critical reviews pretty much sum all that up in their averages.

 

[SteveT90]

Spud name one thing aside from graphics (even that’s arguable somehow) that improved from shenmue 2 to 3

 

[spud1897]

Spud name one thing aside from graphics (even that’s arguable somehow) that improved from shenmue 2 to 3

Multi-man combat is better in Shenmue 3. It allows for better lock-on and doesn't have the camera issues of the originals. Envrionments in Shemmue 3 are fantastic. That's 2.

EDIT: Talking to Shenhua each night in Bailu are some of the most rich conversations in the series.
Whack A Mole - Awesome
Good variety of ways to make money (Herbs, Forklift, Wood Chopping)
Dual Analouge control system for moving around felt smooth but rooted in the originals.

 

[SteveT90]

You said there’s no blind defence and then said the combat is better, you are genuinely going to argue that the laggy button bashing no skill system is better than a virtua fighter system?

Whilst making stupid points i’m going to say that the stamina system is the best thing that’s ever happened to shenmue and the training horse is revolutionary to all computer games going forward

 

[iknifaugood]

I would argue that there were some elements that were massively toxic towards Cyberpunk in the beginning towards CDPR and it clearly sold a bunch of copies on the initial hype which probably contributed to the outrage.

Cyberpunk certainly sold the most around launch but it has enjoyed a healthy post-launch life and even had higher sales in 2022 than 2021. https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/...xt=Game sales and other data,% year-over-year.

Shenmue 3, on the other hand, seems to have peaked around the Kickstarter launch.

YS himself even confirmed last year that they have taken on board all feedback and want to make a core Shenmue game but improve things for new players: https://gamerant.com/yu-suzuki-inte...er-shenmue-110-industries/?newsletter_popup=1

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Imagine if CDPR left Cyberpunk as it was and told people to pony up even more money so that they could make a better sequel. Instead they satisfied (or at least attempted to) their existing fans and that also allowed them to expand their audience. Shenmue 3 had one half assed DLC that was clearly just using leftover assets during development and that was it. If the developers aren't throwing their all behind what is likely the last game in the franchise then what outcome did they expect?

Also, there's not a blind defence here from anyone or the community. Looking at the flaws and balancing that out is exactly what many have been doing and will continue to do with many not having a massive issue with the flaws, though voicing them, on the overall experience on a personal level.

The defense I'm talking about is from people who claim that S3 is "for the fans" or that it is somehow an unchanged continuation of the original games. Were that the case you would not see as many existing fans having such fundamental issues with the game as they do. This "for the fans" mentality seems to have been what doomed S3 from the start.

 

[Sonoshee]

Whilst making stupid points i’m going to say that the stamina system is the best thing that’s ever happened to shenmue and the training horse is revolutionary to all computer games going forward

You really are a clown.

 

[spud1897]

Cyberpunk certainly sold the most around launch but it has enjoyed a healthy post-launch life and even had higher sales in 2022 than 2021. https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/03/31/cd-projekt-2022-report-revenue-cyberpunk-2077-profit#:~:text=Game sales and other data,% year-over-year.

Shenmue 3, on the other hand, seems to have peaked around the Kickstarter launch.


This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Imagine if CDPR left Cyberpunk as it was and told people to pony up even more money so that they could make a better sequel. Instead they satisfied (or at least attempted to) their existing fans and that also allowed them to expand their audience. Shenmue 3 had one half assed DLC that was clearly just using leftover assets during development and that was it. If the developers aren't throwing their all behind what is likely the last game in the franchise then what outcome did they expect?


The defense I'm talking about is from people who claim that S3 is "for the fans" or that it is somehow an unchanged continuation of the original games. Were that the case you would not see as many existing fans having such fundamental issues with the game as they do. This "for the fans" mentality seems to have been what doomed S3 from the start.

Shenmue 3 sold around 100k WK 1 based on estimates on here https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/index.php?threads/sales-of-shenmue-iii-where-are-we-now.2735/ so saying it peaked at Kickstarter launch is a little hyperbolic.

Difference is Cyberpunk has a much larger budget to begin with, would have had substantial funds to do more following the sales. Shenmue 3 had 3 DLC's. Battle Rally which was pretty well recieved, story DLC which was clearly held back from the original game and the boat DLC which didn't do much. So even if they wanted to throw more behind it they probably couldn't sustain it from a budget standpoint. And to say they didn't put their all into 3 seems a little backhanded even if you didn't like the final product.

Well it was made by Yu Suzuki for the fans.... we did bring it back afterall. Whether that's the right call is a debate in itself and one that would likely require a topic in itself. But had Shenmue strayed too far from the originals would have it alienated fans and potentially have done worse - or even better?

Anyway happy to continue this in a new thread.

 

[Seaman]

We need Shenmue 4 urgently, so the blind hate shifts to that chapter and Shenmue 3 gets the status it deserves. Then proceed the same way for S5.
This works for Tarantino and Scorcese so I dont see why it cannot work for Yu Suzuki too.

Claiming, nostalgia aside, that S3 graphics are regressed compared to 2 its very unaccurate. I concede the part of being less optimized but thats the sign of times, Shenmue 3 didn't invented day zero patches. And the reason for this is the change from target plataforms that were home arcade versions to PCs with a console like shell case. I love playing on PC, and modding its an advantage too, but games were better optimized when the amounts of RAM for example was around a tiny 15-30mb (DC and PS2).
Please stop the aggresive insulting comments. Im tired about being the ones who happens to truly enjoy S3 and assume others wont, the blinds and stupids. Its never the other way around of course, because the people thinking S3 its bad (even the worst game in history) are in possession of the truth TM. My bet is that it will be the same on every topic of discussion with these profiles.
Please stop the rabid comments.
I dont want rabid posts here, in Shenmue Dojo.
And welcome to the newcomers, hoping to arm wrestling with you soon.

 

[SteveT90]

You really are a clown.

Ad hominem insults actually show who really is a clown , if you decide to be grown up and join this largely civil conversation then I look forward to engaging but for now I’ll assume your 12 years old having a paddy as you don’t understand someone disliking a largely flawed game

 

[spud1897]

You said there’s no blind defence and then said the combat is better, you are genuinely going to argue that the laggy button bashing no skill system is better than a virtua fighter system?

Whilst making stupid points i’m going to say that the stamina system is the best thing that’s ever happened to shenmue and the training horse is revolutionary to all computer games going forward

Where did I argue that? Let me quote myself seeing as you like putting words in peoples mouths.

Multi-man combat is better in Shenmue 3. It allows for better lock-on and doesn't have the camera issues of the originals.

Here I state that the camera makes multi-man battles better to handle within the Shenmue 3 combat system over the sometimes iffy camerawork in the originals. I've said publicaly I prefer the VF system for 1v1 battles and the lack of throws was a pain. Once I got the hang of the system and learnt how it functioned I had a good time with it and have spent quite a bit of time exploring the depths of it.

Also I am going to quote IGN on this (yes I am going low now) 'The combat is all hand-to-hand against various thugs and it’s challenging, but not in any particularly fun or rewarding sort of way. The detailed combos of the first two games have been abandoned, which is a big improvement: instead of memorizing button inputs for a specific move and then spamming them in an abandoned parking lot by yourself to improve them, now you can spar with other people to level up those moves and map them to a hotkey.'

Without going further he does critisise the system for some of the hit detection and the fact it was harder to get openings (which I disagree with as the system is built on dodging, while not over using block and closing the distance quickly to strike) but clearly didn't mind it and prefered it. If you don't like the system I have no issue with that.

Whilst making stupid points i’m going to say that the stamina system is the best thing that’s ever happened to shenmue and the training horse is revolutionary to all computer games going forward

Let's not go here as the discussion doesn't need it.

EDIT: Jumping off as I have been on here way too long. Enjoy the day.

 

[spud1897]

Also as another aside let's not get into name calling.... really doesn't need it.