How I Would "Fix" Shenmue 3's Story

Joined
Nov 23, 2019
I was thinking about how it'd be possible to fix Shenmue 3's story (from the perspective of someone who didn't like it) without changing any of the "plot" information. The more I think about the story to S3, the more I think my issues with it are not necessarily the story per se but rather how it's told. Obviously I wish we learned more about the mirrors, CYM, poem etc. but I think the deeper problems with S3 are with its premise, its breadcrumb trail, and its tone. So here's part 1 of my little thought experiment, the opening sequence:

Rules:
  • No additional gameplay (the systems are what they are; things can be removed but not added)
  • No new story development (things can be remixed but nothing pertaining to the over arching narrative can be added)
  • Same story beats and same ending (ie: Yuan is kidnapped, Niao Sun and Lan Di end up with the mirrors)

Attempted Fixes:
  • Start things off with more of a bang.
  • Make the goals and boundaries more logical
  • Prioritize set ups and pay offs
  • Focus on more frequent character interactions and clarifications
  • Shenmue 3 is too long imo, so as a general rule I would shoot for around a 10 hour game with this amount of content.
Part 1: Intro Sequence

Ryo and Shenhua are rattled by what they discover in the cave and they race to Bailu Village to find out what happened to Shenhua’s father. They discover that the CYM have raided the village: Yanglang is interrogating the stone masons and Niao Sun is also there demanding the mirror. The stone masons are kneeling in a line, Niao Sun has ordered them to be killed one by one until the location of the mirror is revealed. Suddenly, Yuan speaks up and says that the mirror is hidden (buried under the Shenmue tree?).

Yanglang hands Niao Sun the mirror which is a perfect replica and she takes Yuan with her and as she’s leaving she orders the rest of the stone masons killed and the village burned. Ryo runs in to save him and we get our first bit of gameplay as Ryo dispatches some CYM grunts and confronts Yanglang. The fight is unwinnable but as Yanglang is laying a beatdown on Ryo, Grandmaster Feng appears and fights him off. Ryo is KO'd.

Ryo awakens to find much of Bailu village destroyed and Shenhua’s father missing. Because of the damage caused by the fire, this gives Shenhua things to do during the day as the villagers all work together to rebuild the town. But the biggest change is that the threat has been neutralized so there are no more thugs in Bailu (for now) and Ryo now has a few objectives: 1. Investigate the mysterious woman. 2. Find out where they took Yuan. 3. Speak with Grandmaster Feng.

This intro fixes a few of my biggest problems with S3: we start things off with a bang, we’re introduced to Niao Sun and immediately establish that she means business and is more sadistic than Lan Di, we establish the replica mirror (I hate that Ren just buys one at a gift shop so much I literally can’t even), the Grandmaster of Bailu is able to be useful, and it feels like a more natural continuation of S2 (Shenhua’s premonition of bad things happening and the dire tone of the note).
 
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Part 2: Bailu Village

The biggest change I would make to Bailu is to remove the threat of Yanglang and the thugs; it's weirdly low stakes and Niaowu will provide plenty of time for action. I would recharacterize Bailu Village to be more in line with what we see in Shenmue 2: much more rural, no arcades, or gambling, the people wear clothing similar to Shenhua, and there is no currency! People live off the land and operate on favors and bartering. Bailu Village would also represent approximately half the play time of S3 (I would estimate around 5 hours just following the story).

Ryo and Shenhua go to speak with Feng and it plays out similarly to what exists in the game. Ryo notices the tree that Iwao practiced under and has a flashback, Shenhua remarks upon this and establishes that this is a Shenmue tree (this can also be the tree where the fake mirror was hidden). She says some vague things about how the tree makes her feel connected to the past or something like that. Feng immediately knows that something is wrong with Iwao or his son would not be there. Ryo explains that his father was murdered and shows him the picture of Sunming Zhao. The main difference is that I would actually have Feng explain to Ryo why he believes that Iwao would not commit murder, maybe have him tell a story about Iwao or something. Ryo asks about Niao Sun and Feng, sussing out that Ryo is on a vengeance kick refuses to answer any further. He apologizes to Shenhua that he was unable to rescue her father and states that he does not know where they have taken him. Before leaving, Ryo asks if he may train under him and Feng hands him a handful of rice and says “when you turn this rice into 50 year old wine, I will train you”. (for the purposes of this exercise, I’m combining Sun and Feng into one character)

And so begins my version of “old master makes young student do a bunch of bullshit as training”. In this version, EVERYTHING you learn in Bailu is tied to this quest, think one giant trading quest from Zelda only Ryo has to do things to help repair the damaged buildings (chopping wood can be tied into this), restock supplies (picking herbs), fighting off bandits (but NOT CYM) and other side-questy things for the people of Bailu Village. Ideally Feng would be the head of the marital hall in Bailu and he could require Ryo to do some sparring. He still learns about the Verdant Bridge (and has to repair it), the emperor, the mirrors etc. but it’s now in the context of helping the people of Bailu. I would keep the shrine but add that Iwao helped construct it (to explain why it's a mishmash of Japanese and Chinese) I would also tie learning moves to helping people, rather can gatcha balls. Ryo can be annoyed/frustrated, especially at first, but Shenhua explains that the people of Bailu need their help and they can’t help her father if they don’t know where he is.

After all the information has been learned (ideally there would be more information on phantom river stone, the Shenmue tree(s), and the poem but I’m not going to be adding any information we didn’t get) and Ryo has “traded” all the way up to the 50 year old wine, Grandmaster Feng reveals that he’s been training Ryo the whole time the same way he trained his father: focusing on inner strength, helping others, sacrifice, “everything is Kung Fu” and teaches Ryo the bodycheck. He admires how quickly he’s able to learn the move and says he’s truly his father’s son. He explains that Niao Sun is a member (leader?) of the CYM and that she’s super crazy and sadistic and Ryo mentions Lan Di. Feng asks for more details of the day that Iwao died and Ryo says that Lan Di stole the Dragon Mirror, he shows Feng the Phoenix Mirror and Feng tells him to go see Elder Yeh. I would like to add a subplot about how Yanglang is a former disciple of Feng’s because in this version, Yanglang is the main baddie; there is no Mr. Muscles. I would make Yanglang have the animal styles and have Feng explain that to Ryo.

Shenhua and Ryo go see Elder Yeh and it plays out basically the same, it would be nice if Elder Yeh explained something about the poem or destiny or what makes Shenhua special at this point but no adding to what isn’t there. Chai attacks the same way but this time he reveals that Yuan is in Niaowu and Niao Sun and Lan Di have traveled into the mountains. Ryo suppresses his urge to charge blindly into the mountains and instead agrees to go to Niaowu to rescue Yuan, knowing that once Niao Sun realizes she was tricked, it will not end well for him.

This fixes a few (but not all) of my issues with Bailu Village: it makes sense that Ryo is stuck there, there isn’t a looming enemy that’s just waiting around, it focuses more on the master who trained Ryo’s father and less on grinding for money, it establishes who Niao Sun is and that she isn’t in Niaowu freeing up Li Feng to actually work as a plot twist, and it makes the heroes think they’re a step ahead of the bad guys when they’re actually being played, it also allows Niao Sun’s plan to be made more opaque to the audience.
 
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If nothing can be added, I think the best way to improve it would be to remove story beats that never properly paid off. To this end, I’d scrap the Niao Sun is Li Feng plot twist altogether as well as the existence of the second Shenmue tree.

Other than that, I’d lower the money gates to improve pacing, maybe even replacing the first one entirely with a prolonged woodcutting section where Tao has Ryo work for the wine instead of paying for it outright. Granted, this would make the game a bit shorter, but I think it would drastically improve the pacing.
 
If nothing can be added, I think the best way to improve it would be to remove story beats that never properly paid off. To this end, I’d scrap the Niao Sun is Li Feng plot twist altogether as well as the existence of the second Shenmue tree.
By nothing can be added, what I meant is that I can't enter pure speculation mode and add things that I think will be important and I can't put additional words in character's mouths regarding the overarching story. This is more of an exercise in seeing if I could "remix" the story of S3 to tell it in a way that I would find more compelling, so obviously I'm making a ton of changes. We also don't know if multiple Shenmue trees will be important later on, so imo that would need to stay (and be something that is properly stated outright).

Other than that, I’d lower the money gates to improve pacing, maybe even replacing the first one entirely with a prolonged woodcutting section where Tao has Ryo work for the wine instead of paying for it outright. Granted, this would make the game a bit shorter, but I think it would drastically improve the pacing.
The number 1 thing I would emphasize no matter what is that for Shenmue 3 to tell a proper story it needs to be a shorter game given the amount of content on offer. I understand that Baisha was cut and that sucks, but it feels like they were working backwards from a goal of creating a 20 hour game. Imo one of the biggest problems with S3's story is the breadcrumb trail you follow is unfocused on the right characters and the stakes are too low for this part of the story and those are things that can't be fixed by simply quickening the pace (though that would certainly help).
 
and the stakes are too low for this part of the story

Yeah. This was always one of my biggest issues with S3. The way that these hardened criminals just repeatedly send Ryo on his way after a quick beatdown is pretty laughable, really.

Between the Mad Angels and the Yellow Heads, both Shenmue 1 and 2 placed players in plenty of life and death situations, yet neither the Blue Spiders nor the Red Snakes ever really pose that much of a threat due largely to the two unwinnable fights against their respective leaders.
 
Part 3: Niaowu and the Old Castle

We’re in Niaowu with the main goal of finding Yuan. Honestly, not a lot happens in Niaowu in Shenmue 3, so this will pretty much be all about focusing on the characters who help Ryo storm the castle (I would make them the keys to helping Ryo counter the different animal styles, if Yanglang was a former student of Feng, he can establish the different styles and build up how dangerous he is) and Li Feng duping our heroes (especially Shenhua). Niaowu is a city under the grip of the CYM so the Red Snakes function like a mafia, taking what they want from the locals and are led by Yanglang who works for Niao Sun. The main goal being to increase the amount of threat that Ryo is facing, losing a fight in Niaowu should mean certain death the same way it did in Kowloon. Niaowu should also characterize Shenhua as the fish out of water with Ryo being a bit more streetwise (I would love for him to pull a fast one on someone with Ren’s coins).

We essentially start by trying to find Yuan and the Red Snakes, nearly everyone has something to say as they have been terrorizing the town for months now. Hsu and Shiling fight back against the Red Snakes and pay the price with constant vandalism, theft, and assault. I really like the way we’re unceremoniously reintroduced to Ren in S3 so that stays the same and eventually we find out that Li Feng, who other characters in Niaowu should know, has been kidnapped by Yanglang. We find out where he’s headquartered and it’d be nice if this area was a bit more fleshed out like the Five Star building in S2 (I would cut A LOT of areas from Niaowu to make this tradeoff). We can find evidence that Yuan was there, maybe some CYM/Niao Sun stuff? Ryo loses to Yanglang, even with the body check, and is only able to narrowly escape with Li Feng thanks to Ren (maybe he uses his knife? Or drops some wherehouse shit near him?).

We now have to find a way to counter the mysterious animal styles by finding/helping Hsu, Shilling, and Bei. We can even keep the arcane manual if needed but you should NOT have to grind for money in order to obtain it, rather Li Feng is able to get the manual for you as a token of her gratitude. Once you have studied the various styles by bringing the manual to the different masters (think something like obtaining the 4 wude from S2) and you’re ready to confront Yanglang, Shenhua is kidnapped. It would be nice if this was tied to her being lulled into a false sense of trust by Li Feng but as it stands, we can find Li Feng in her room (implying that Shenhua trusted her enough to bring her to the hotel) and tells our heroes where they went.

Then it’s off to the old castle. Obviously I would love it if this section was expanded, something closer to the Yellowhead building. Ryo fights through the Red Snakes, it should be very tough. The biggest difference I would make is that Ryo would fight Yanglang before the Niao Sun reveal; ideally the masters would be with you, maybe Yanglang dispatches all of them first? Niao Sun being there and the fact that she was Li Feng is more of a plot twist since we’ve been led to believe that she’s in the mountains and she can reveal that she knew the mirror was a fake (maybe she can say she learned from Chai that a boy from Japan has the real Phoenix Mirror). She then threatens Shenhua in order to get the mirror from Ryo but Ryo remembers how she acted in Bailu, what’s to stop Niao Sun from killing Shenhua once Ryo gives up the mirror? Niao Sun asks what’s to stop her from killing them both and taking it? She lets Shenhua go because she has other plans for Ryo. Shenhua and Yuan escape with the masters. She throws the fake mirror at Ryo and Ren catches it.

Niao Sun tells Ryo that if he wants to get to Lan Di, he has to do her another favor and dispatch the Red Snakes on the way; they've outlived their usefulness. Then the ending with Lan Di is more or less the same (I would either make his bodyguards real challenging fights leading up to Lan Di or remove them entirely). The one big change I have to make is that Ren gives Lan Di the replica mirror, he doesn’t chuck it out the window. This is in order to make the ending make sense because, as it stands, it is too unclear what Lan Di and Niao Sun are doing at the Cliff Temple, especially for another cliffhanger ending.

Similarly, the ending with Yuan, needs some changes in order to make sense: I’d fix up that translation error regarding the cliff temple being on the scroll, I’d reword the repetition of the Sunming Zhao reveal, I’d add some urgency to the fact that Ryo has lost the Phoenix Mirror (maybe Yuan briefly mentions that they don’t know how important Shenhua is or gives some indication that he understands the mystical nature of what he’s carving), and Yuan can mention that the CYM have taken over the Cliff Temple and surmises that Lan Di would be headed to the Cliff Temple with both mirrors. Maybe we can give Ryo a W for once and let him piece together that Niao Sun must have set it up so she could ambush Lan Di at the Cliff Temple? It would be very helpful if he gave a hint of what to expect at the Cliff Temple but no additions.

And that’s about it for how I’d “fix” the story for Shenmue 3 without really adding anything, just focusing and expanding on what’s there. If it was really important that Ryo get jerked around by a master, then I’d rather it be the one who trained Iwao. If he must learn special moves as hard counters, then I would rather tie it to the animal style and the multiple martial artists who don’t really serve a narrative purpose. I’d like Niao Sun to be the villain from the beginning and for her plan to hold up to scrutiny. I’d like Lan Di to have a reason to do what he does (perhaps he can’t go to Bailu because Niao Sun controls that territory but then that’s adding things). And I’d like the cliffhanger to actually set something up rather than leave it to the audience to try and piece together what’s supposed to be happening. Most of all, I would like the game to feel like a more natural continuation of Shenmue 2 and raising the stakes from that game.
 
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To this end, I’d scrap the Niao Sun is Li Feng plot twist altogether

I wonder what they were going for with that part of the story? I never really got it and not long before the reveal I had kind of worked it out for myself.

Does anyone understand what the point was? Was it just poorly executed do you think? Or perhaps aspects of the story were cut that would have meant the reveal would have been more impactful.
 
I wonder what they were going for with that part of the story? I never really got it and not long before the reveal I had kind of worked it out for myself.

Does anyone understand what the point was? Was it just poorly executed do you think? Or perhaps aspects of the story were cut that would have meant the reveal would have been more impactful.
Probably a bit of both. Had they added a few extra scenes with her and taken the time to introduce Niao Sun ahead of time, it might have made for a more interesting story thread.

Sadly, though, it ended up being more a case of “this person you barely know is actually this other person, who you don’t know at all”. Obviously some of us fans did already know who Niao Sun was ahead of the game’s release due to old concept art or the supplementary info on the Shenmue 3 webpage, but to casual fans and first-time players, it was very much a case of “who the hell is that and why should I care?”.
 
Does anyone understand what the point was? Was it just poorly executed do you think? Or perhaps aspects of the story were cut that would have meant the reveal would have been more impactful.
It was poorly executed: I don't see how anything in Baisha could have made that twist work so it appears that what we got is more or less what we were always supposed to get. If I had to guess I'd assume that Li Feng was meant to characterize Niao Sun as more of a subtle, manipulative villain as opposed to Lan Di's martial arts proficiency but it doesn't really work because we don't know enough about her or her plan and she ends up relying on kidnapping Shenhua to get what she wants anyway. IMO it would make sense if Niao Sun gave an audience to Chai and Lan Di didn't and that's how she came to learn about the mirror (which may be what they were going for but it's never really established).

Sadly, though, it ended up being more a case of “this person you barely know is actually this other person, who you don’t know at all”. Obviously some of us fans did already know who Niao Sun was ahead of the game’s release due to old concept art or the supplementary info on the Shenmue 3 webpage, but to casual fans and first-time players, it was very much a case of “who the hell is that and why should I care?”.
I always thought Niao Sun was going to have something to do with the eagle from the first two games, sort of subtly implying that she was aware of Shenhua the whole time and tying the third game more to the first two. I was actually pretty disappointed to see the eagle dropped from S3 lol. "Why should I care?" is perhaps the biggest difference between the first two games and the third from a storytelling perspective.
 
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I don't see how anything in Baisha could have made that twist work…
I beg to differ. This could have been an awesome plot twist had it been handled better. Sadly, however, like a lot of the story elements in Shenmue 3, not nearly enough time was spent setting it up.
 
I beg to differ. This could have been an awesome plot twist had it been handled better. Sadly, however, like a lot of the story elements in Shenmue 3, not nearly enough time was spent setting it up.
How do you mean? Baisha was supposed to take place after Niaowu, so how would that have helped with setting up the twist? To the best of my understanding, the content of Baisha was moved to the Old Castle section, which I took to mean confronting Lan Di. It's possible that it refers to everything before rescuing Yuan but I find that hard to believe because then how would you be directed to Baisha? It would make sense for Niao Sun to tell you that Lan Di is in Baisha and then you go there after rescuing Shenhua and Yuan. I'm firmly of the mind that Baisha was cut relatively early as I've never seen it in any real gameplay nor was it featured in any of the trailers so I'm just not sure how it was supposed to play out.
 
How do you mean? Baisha was supposed to take place after Niaowu, so how would that have helped with setting up the twist? To the best of my understanding, the content of Baisha was moved to the Old Castle section, which I took to mean confronting Lan Di. It's possible that it refers to everything before rescuing Yuan but I find that hard to believe because then how would you be directed to Baisha? It would make sense for Niao Sun to tell you that Lan Di is in Baisha and then you go there after rescuing Shenhua and Yuan. I'm firmly of the mind that Baisha was cut relatively early as I've never seen it in any real gameplay nor was it featured in any of the trailers so I'm just not sure how it was supposed to play out.
Without knowing where in the story Baisha was set to feature, it’s difficult to say, but imo, the Li Feng plot twist needed two things to really work.

First and foremost, the Li Feng character needed to be much more fleshed out. Personally, I would have liked to have seen her befriend Shenhua while Ryo explored Niaowu, but there are a million and one other ways they could have better explored the character. Ultimately, though, the twist needed to feel like a surprise (which it didn’t, due to how on the nose a lot of the interactions with Li Feng were) and also like a betrayal (which it didn’t, due to how there’s no kind of bond between Ryo/Shenhua and Li Feng).

In addition to this, Niao Sun needed to have been properly introduced before the big reveal. This could have been through Ryo encountering her in person, but it would have also worked had some of the characters Ryo meets warned him about her in advance to properly set her up as the game’s main villain.

Assuming Baisha was intended to come after Niao Sun kidnapped Shenhua, the big reveal could have been pushed back until near the end of the game, perhaps with Li Feng offering to help Ryo and Shenhua to navigate Baisha only to show her true colors right at the close when she tries to burn down the castle. Of course, whether or not that would have worked with what YS originally had planned we’ll likely never know.
 
First and foremost, the Li Feng character needed to be much more fleshed out. Personally, I would have liked to have seen her befriend Shenhua while Ryo explored Niaowu, but there are a million and one other ways they could have better explored the character. Ultimately, though, the twist needed to feel like a surprise (which it didn’t, due to how on the nose a lot of the interactions with Li Feng were) and also like a betrayal (which it didn’t, due to how there’s no kind of bond between Ryo/Shenhua and Li Feng).

In addition to this, Niao Sun needed to have been properly introduced before the big reveal. This could have been through Ryo encountering her in person, but it would have also worked had some of the characters Ryo meets warned him about her in advance to properly set her up as the game’s main villain.
This is all true, it's just hard for me to square with what we ultimately got. Like what is the content on offer in Niaowu if we end with Shenhua getting kidnapped? I guess Li Feng would point them toward Baisha, but then why would she join them? Like if she was supposed to be written as a friend of Shenhua's then that's just not there in Niaowu and Baisha is too late to show it. Presumably Baisha would also have appeared on the scroll so maybe that would have tied into more of the "prophecy" or whatever, but that ultimately leaves Niaowu as the place that they go to for a bit where nothing really happens until they get directed somewhere else. IMO it would also require them to clarify what Niao Sun knows and what her plan is because if her goal is to kidnap Shenhua in order to get the Phoenix Mirror from Ryo (as I understand it to be), then why change locations?

Assuming Baisha was intended to come after Niao Sun kidnapped Shenhua, the big reveal could have been pushed back until near the end of the game, perhaps with Li Feng offering to help Ryo and Shenhua to navigate Baisha only to show her true colors right at the close when she tries to burn down the castle.
This definitely could have worked (though not without pretty substantial changes to Niaowu) but that means that basically all of the content of Baisha is in the game, just a different location (which is what I understood to have happened until I learned that S3 originally had a different ending). Would love to know more.
 
don't know if it breaks your rules but i think the intro to shenmue 3 wasn't good, and the player needs to be reminded what your fighting for.

we needed a good recap outlining some of the important parts of the previous games ( Iwao Hazuki death at the hands of lan di) and ryos struggle to get upto shenmue 3. even if it was an anime or still images, it would of been so much better. they can knock up pretty good trailers - the shenmue online trailer is good but shenmue 2 dreamcast trailer always hypes me up. lol

we also needed some flashback or dream sequences with ryo's father, like in shenmue 1 when ryo is a child, to remind the player what they are fighting for and give them the emotional connection to Iwao Hazuki. the player should be angry when they see lan di. (shenmue 2 didn't really have that problem because the game only came out relatively shortly after S1.)

...i just really hope they add those 2 things for shenmue 4 and i'll be happy.
 
This is all true, it's just hard for me to square with what we ultimately got. Like what is the content on offer in Niaowu if we end with Shenhua getting kidnapped? I guess Li Feng would point them toward Baisha, but then why would she join them? Like if she was supposed to be written as a friend of Shenhua's then that's just not there in Niaowu and Baisha is too late to show it. Presumably Baisha would also have appeared on the scroll so maybe that would have tied into more of the "prophecy" or whatever, but that ultimately leaves Niaowu as the place that they go to for a bit where nothing really happens until they get directed somewhere else. IMO it would also require them to clarify what Niao Sun knows and what her plan is because if her goal is to kidnap Shenhua in order to get the Phoenix Mirror from Ryo (as I understand it to be), then why change locations?


This definitely could have worked (though not without pretty substantial changes to Niaowu) but that means that basically all of the content of Baisha is in the game, just a different location (which is what I understood to have happened until I learned that S3 originally had a different ending). Would love to know more.
If Shenhua and Li Feng had become friends in Niaowu, I think it would have made perfect sense for her to offer to help Ryo rescue Shenhua when she got kidnapped, particularly if Li Feng claimed to know Baisha. She could have even been the one to warn Ryo about Niao Sun, which would have made her eventual betrayal all the more impactful.

Without asking YS himself or getting ahold of the original script for Shenmue 3, we’ll likely never know how close what we got was to what was originally planned. It’s entirely possible that the Li Feng storyline was just always poorly written, but even if that were the case, I don’t think the idea itself is a bad one. In fact, had it been executed properly, I think it would have been the perfect way to introduce Niao Sun to the the players.
 
If Shenhua and Li Feng had become friends in Niaowu, I think it would have made perfect sense for her to offer to help Ryo rescue Shenhua when she got kidnapped, particularly if Li Feng claimed to know Baisha. She could have even been the one to warn Ryo about Niao Sun, which would have made her eventual betrayal all the more impactful.
Oh I totally agree with that, I think something like that should exist in Niaowu and could very well carry on to Baisha. I only meant that Niao Sun would need a reason to lure Ryo to Baisha to take the mirror, particularly if Lan Di is there.

I don’t think the idea itself is a bad one. In fact, had it been executed properly, I think it would have been the perfect way to introduce Niao Sun to the the players.
I don't either. I kept it in my "fixed" version because I think there's potentially good characterization there. It's just hard to know what her character is supposed to be canonically and I was really looking forward to season 2 of the anime to flesh her out. Sigh...
 
I've seen various topics on the concept of a Shenmue 3: Director's Cut - A version of the game which has little tweaks here and there.

I like a lot of what you wrote (OP), Shen3's opening is slow & quite anti-climatic considering the scale of Shen2's ending.

Here are some of th changes I would make:
- The Martial Arts Dojo intergrated into the narrative more:

Maybe part of it is the expectation after seen the Chapter Panels but I always wanted to see Ryo progress as a Martial Artist earn that green attire. In Shen2, Ryo's teachings of the Wude are core to the story and I would have liked more motive to go to the Dojo's than just a few extra battles. On my playthrough I would visit the Dojo/Training each day to keep in line with that vision but it doesn't feel natual.

- Teachings by the Masters:

Sort of a follow up but one of the cool feautres of the previous games is how Ryo learns from the people he meets. This does happen a little bit in Shen3 & I liked the concept of having to research Mr.Muscles fighting style but the structure felt very absent within the game. Master Feng is the obvious example, Ryo's father previously trained with him there, there is so much opritunity to find out about Iwao's past there and it is painfully glossed over. You can spare with Master Feng but once again it feels like an extra and not implemented into the gameplay. I want Ryo to be guided by these Masters and go through training - Shen1 & Shen2 had no issue forcing the player to do daily chores/jobs I feel Shen3 lacked that structure.

- Interesring NPC Events:
Part of the charm of Shenmue is the journey & the people Ryo meets, I can name many NPC's like Tom, Mark, Goro, Jiamin, Fang Mei etc. yet with Shen3, I can barely remmeber any, this is because they lack decent scenario writing, - I genuinely can't remember the names of the people in Ryo's possy at the end of Shen3. I wish he had more interesting moments with these characters. For the big Martial Arts guy, maybe have his Dojo in trouble with the local gangs (Which sort of happens I guess as with the Broom-Lady). The scene with the man by the docks is decent but still a character I felt nothiing for this bunch and that absence of interest bothered me. I wanted bonds with them like Ryo has with Ren, Joy and Wong by Kowloon.

- Niao Suns Reveal:
It didn't work. Had here disguise had more of an appearance in Niaowu maybe it could have been impactful but we barely saw her before the change, it was also redundant information as soon as we heard it.

- Yuan Ending Speech/Niaowu Plot:
I felt like minial information was reveal after all thsi time trying to rescue him. Also, I felt that he should have been secured within Bailu and better motivation to go to Niaowu explored. Of couase we have the conversation with Yeh & the scroll. But was their much progression with the 'Hidden Treasure' teased on the scroll? I don't recall finding anything of use at all there.

- Castle:

Overall I liked this section, the beginning was a bit limp (Pizza Plate Anybody...) But after that moment it held the momentum needed. I still stand by then fight with Lan Di was fantastic! Not landing a single punch after all this way proved Lan Di to be a force & among my favourite moments of the series - I only wish the combat lasted for a little longer. I like the concept of Niao Sun's betrayal, interested to see where it leads. I don't think the mirror-double diversion was needed, the castel ablaze had enough tension.

I think what it comes down to is that I wish Shen3 had a little more time to flesh out some of the notable NPC's, have a few more scenarios and focused more on Ryo's progression as a martial artist. I wish it has more plot progression but it is hard to summarise that without knowing what is ahead. Part of me wants to say I wish the msytery around Sunming Zhao was revealed or the treasue had been found and Shen4 would be dealing with the consequences of that but that now feels like content to transition the story from Shen4 to Shen5...
 
I definitely agree with most of your points Vivi, good post, and some great discussion in here. Whilst i'm ultimately happy with the game we got, the story wasn't the best...but they still have chance to flesh stuff and make amends in the story department in the future...like if Shenmue 4 starts by heading back to Bailu first and then with Mr Yuan in tow, we can learn stuff we should have...maybe even joined by Feng and Elder Yeh to really discuss everything before our next destination. So it's not all totally lost. They could even bring back the Li Feng version of Niao Sun we could catch her in the act...to add more substance to her...but actually I didn't think this aspect was too bad in what we did get in Shenmue 3. She's obviously trying to get Ryo to take a shine to her, and because of that relationship, we assume that Shenhua would have no concerns when she tells her that Ryo had been kidnapped. The relationship building could have been executed better, but it does still work.
don't know if it breaks your rules but i think the intro to shenmue 3 wasn't good, and the player needs to be reminded what your fighting for.

we needed a good recap outlining some of the important parts of the previous games ( Iwao Hazuki death at the hands of lan di) and ryos struggle to get upto shenmue 3. even if it was an anime or still images, it would of been so much better. they can knock up pretty good trailers - the shenmue online trailer is good but shenmue 2 dreamcast trailer always hypes me up. lol
There was a digest movie if that's what you were thinking?
 
Shen4 would be dealing with the consequences of that but that now feels like content to transition the story from Shen4 to Shen5...
From everything I've heard Suzuki say, it seems like he believes it's at least possible to wrap the story up in 1 more game (as far as I know he's only ever suggested 1 or 2 more games) which makes the prospect of a Shenmue 5, especially now, seem totally off the table.

if Shenmue 4 starts by heading back to Bailu first and then with Mr Yuan in tow, we can learn stuff we should have...maybe even joined by Feng and Elder Yeh to really discuss everything before our next destination. So it's not all totally lost. They could even bring back the Li Feng version of Niao Sun we could catch her in the act.
If we truly only get 1 more game, I highly doubt that we'll be revisiting old locations, especially depending on what happens at the Cliff Temple. It's not impossible but there's a lot of ground to cover (Cliff Temple, Meng Cun, Treasure etc.) which basically guarantees that S4 has to be the biggest in the series.

I've seen various topics on the concept of a Shenmue 3: Director's Cut - A version of the game which has little tweaks here and there.
It's an interesting idea but I don't know how that'd go over with fans if it made story changes.
 
From everything I've heard Suzuki say, it seems like he believes it's at least possible to wrap the story up in 1 more game (as far as I know he's only ever suggested 1 or 2 more games) which makes the prospect of a Shenmue 5, especially now, seem totally off the table.

He said at least 5. Wrapping it up with S4 would leave us with a lot of missing content and story beats and look at the outcry after S3 did that.
 
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