Yay or Nay?

Number 4....there were open world games before Shenmue...as any "true" gamer would know.

HYDLIDE for the MSX was considered open-world long before.

Not to take anything away from Shenmue...Shenmue was the open-world game that had a more urban/suburban/real world feel to it and I still think it did pioneer many factors that we still see in modern day games today. It was doing a lot of things that other games like GTA 3 didn't even come close to doing (in the sense of making a grounded world that felt real.)

Cut scene techniques / day-night cycles / building a sense of real place...there were many things that Shenmue did that were pioneering and innovative. But the actual concept of open world existed long before Shenmue.

I feel like I just wasted 7 minutes of my life watching that video.
 
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So is this dude an actual Shenmue fan or is the video just shitting on Shenmue and Shenmue fans? If the latter why are we promoting it on here? Not gonna give clicks to some random dude without knowing anything about the video.
 
You Arcade said:
So is this dude an actual Shenmue fan or is the video just shitting on Shenmue and Shenmue fans? If the latter why are we promoting it on here? Not gonna give clicks to some random dude without knowing anything about the video.
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Based on the comments I think he is being genuine. It's basically just him running down 7 points about "how you're not a true Shenmue fan unless/if..."
 
orient said:
Uh, not sure I agree on the extremely arbitrary points he brings up, but hey, he clearly loves Shenmue and is being genuine. I've got no problem with that.
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I get his love for Shenmue, but I think I agree, I find the whole "not a true fan" thing to be irksome at times. Sure. I find fake to be equally annoying at times, but the whole idea of "you're not a true fan unless..." is also equally dumb to me.

I came from Horror fandoms. I came from Godzilla fandoms. I came from Anime fandoms and this same tired statement always come up and it usually comes up as a way to disparage someone for personal petty reasons.

So, happy he's clearly a fan, but I could live without the "not a true fan" stuff.
 
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I wouldn't use the term fake fans, or any measure to describe someone like or dislike of something.

But with the hype Shenmue 3 generated in 2015, it's hard to escape the fact that there will have been quite a few backers who would fall under the category of band-wagoners. Those who probably didn't even know what Shenmue was, but got caught up in the online frenzy that was the Kickstarter campaign, and threw in something without giving it prior thought. Add into that mix, the section of the video gaming community who come online each day with nothing but a desire for the next controversy or outrage, and you have the real possibility of ending up with people which seem to have pitched their tent on the Kickstarter page comments section.

To me, these are people who don't really have any care for the series. Past, present, or future, and if they even do, they see money as more important than the game, so by all means, give them it back and wish them the best of luck. I haven't watched the video, and I have no intention of watching the video, so I am only commenting on this process as a whole. But the whole "Epic" issue... will always be a misnomer for me. I have always based my life on the fact that if you really and truly want something, you will strive to get it. No matter the hurdles. It's a healthy demonstration of indeed, how badly you really do want something. Words mean nothing. If you say you have wanted this game for 20 years, but will now not play it because of Epic, Deep Silver, trailer quality, or whatever... you are just justifying the truth at the centre of the matter, which is that you didn't really want this game as much a you led people to believe, or perhaps you incorrectly believed yourself in the first place.

I understand that can seem like a simplifying stance, bordering on hand waving, but when you have a substantial history, and online fanbase presence which Shenmue has had since 1999, it changes the equation a bit. These forums are 19 years old. Social media pages since 2010. Campaigns since 2011. Reasons for excitement have been few, but have been there. If you have been through the trenches over these past 2 decades you will know exactly what I am talking about, and to those that have, its insulting to hear about "tru fanz", who want their $60 back because of X, Y or Z reason. Each to their, own and it's just my opinion, but for me, there is no logical justification for anyone who has originally proclaimed that they have waited for so long and want to desperately play this game, to turn around and ask for their money back, and that they will never play the game in their lifetime.
 
Some of the point are arbitrary, but I agree with the sentiment. There's nooooooo way you're gonna convince me that anyone that's been on the journey waiting for almost 2 decades isn't going to play because of EGS.

I could definitely understand being miffed that the PC physical copy isn't independent of any launcher for future purposes. That does kinda suck, but even then I doubt that's gonna be any obstacle to a real fan.
 
I don't agree with the sales point because of course sales matter if we want to continue past Shenmue 3.
 
RetroLord120 said:
I don't agree with the sales point because of course sales matter if we want to continue past Shenmue 3.
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Whilst this is very true, Yu Suzuki has stated that the fans reception to Shenmue 3 is what will get him to make 4 & 5. It'll motivate him to take action and make more games. If there are no fans, there is no game.

As for the guy in the video I think he's just a bit angry of all the nonsense and smack people talk of Shenmue 3 online, his points aren't expressed in a good manner and good detail and I don't think anyone is acting like fake Shenmue fan. There are liars claiming to have beaten the 1st two games but who cares.
 
I do not get point of the exposing culture that is prevalent on YouTube. Putting their fingers on other people because they mad some mistakes is a quite foreign concept to me.

Sure the Shenmue fandom is just a bit weird. I do not get it why some people spend money to make the game a reality and then want their money back because it is not on their download platform of choice.

These people can hardly be considered as fans. If I really want to play a game I use any platform necessary.

Bitching about that people is necessary though. It won't change anything. They won't change their opinion.

If you want to promote Shenmue you should do it in a positive way and the other way around.
 
高野和泉 said:

I can't tell if serious or not...but some points are legit. What does Dojo think?
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It was alarming he said he's a die hard Shenmue fan like 3-4 times as a headsup notice, and that 20 second thing is iffy(you would have to basically rehearse to name all those characters at that speed.

However he didn't mention a aspect that only a real Shenmue fan would beable to notice, he said It's about maturity. This is something that would go right over the heads of every fake Shenmue fan, and people just chasing clout, so I think he's a real Shenmue fan, but just foring excitement alittle for the sake of the video.
 
Peter said:
I wouldn't use the term fake fans, or any measure to describe someone like or dislike of something.

But with the hype Shenmue 3 generated in 2015, it's hard to escape the fact that there will have been quite a few backers who would fall under the category of band-wagoners. Those who probably didn't even know what Shenmue was, but got caught up in the online frenzy that was the Kickstarter campaign, and threw in something without giving it prior thought. Add into that mix, the section of the video gaming community who come online each day with nothing but a desire for the next controversy or outrage, and you have the real possibility of ending up with people which seem to have pitched their tent on the Kickstarter page comments section.

To me, these are people who don't really have any care for the series. Past, present, or future, and if they even do, they see money as more important than the game, so by all means, give them it back and wish them the best of luck. I haven't watched the video, and I have no intention of watching the video, so I am only commenting on this process as a whole. But the whole "Epic" issue... will always be a misnomer for me. I have always based my life on the fact that if you really and truly want something, you will strive to get it. No matter the hurdles. It's a healthy demonstration of indeed, how badly you really do want something. Words mean nothing. If you say you have wanted this game for 20 years, but will now not play it because of Epic, Deep Silver, trailer quality, or whatever... you are just justifying the truth at the centre of the matter, which is that you didn't really want this game as much a you led people to believe, or perhaps you incorrectly believed yourself in the first place.

I understand that can seem like a simplifying stance, bordering on hand waving, but when you have a substantial history, and online fanbase presence which Shenmue has had since 1999, it changes the equation a bit. These forums are 19 years old. Social media pages since 2010. Campaigns since 2011. Reasons for excitement have been few, but have been there. If you have been through the trenches over these past 2 decades you will know exactly what I am talking about, and to those that have, its insulting to hear about "tru fanz", who want their $60 back because of X, Y or Z reason. Each to their, own and it's just my opinion, but for me, there is no logical justification for anyone who has originally proclaimed that they have waited for so long and want to desperately play this game, to turn around and ask for their money back, and that they will never play the game in their lifetime.
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To be fair, he didn't bring up the Epic stuff at all.

1.) Fake Sales Talk -- Talking about fans who try to bring up money as being the important factor and talking about potential sales numbers and such...apparently they're not real Shenmue fans because Shenmue isn't about money, man. Which I find pretty foolish considering half the time I look at this forum, we're talking about potential sales and what we need to get to Shenmue IV. But anyways...

2.) Visually comparing Shenmue III to Red Dead 2 or Witcher III are fake fans -- "it's not about the graphics. It's about the discovery, learning, exploring, martial arts, story etc" -- to be fair I'll give him that one. Shenmue is about all those things. The graphics comparison is just dumb anyways considering one cost under 10 million and the other (Red Dead) cost somewhere around one hundred million...no one in their right mind should make that comparison...ever.

3.) Never owned a copy or played a copy of Shenmue but talk like you know everything about it then you're fake -- "you can't just watch a playthrough rather you have to play it for yourself to be a true Shenmue fan."

Kind of a fair point, but I'd say that about anyone. But I would disagree with the "you can't watch it, you have to play it to get it." There are games that I became a fan of thanks to Let's Plays. I became a fan of Deadly Premonition thanks to watching a Let's Play recently.

But to his other point. You can't just fake enthusiasm for something you've never experienced...otherwise fans will sniff you out when they try to relate to you about the thing they love.

That's fair. I've had people do this to me with other things and you can clearly tell that once you start trying to relate them about it then they have no clue how to respond and try to move on. That's the one thing about fake fandom that is sad to me...why lie about something? If you're not into something then just say it...I won't judge them for it. I'd rather they tell me flat out then try to relate to me by being fake. So I'll maybe give him that one as well. Because I've had people do this to me and I just don't understand why people do it.

I mean my friends are all into Dr Who. I have never watched a single episode of Dr Who. I don't feel the need to pretend I have to relate to them about it. It's just not a shared interest for us.

4.) Failing to realise that Shenmue started the open world concept -- No. Sorry, dude, but no. That's simply not true. The open-world game existed before Shenmue. There were games striving towards open-worlds before Shenmue. I love Shenmue, but it's not the first open-world game. That's simply a false statement.

5.) If you can't name 20 characters in 20 seconds then they're not true fans -- Goes on to name 20 characters.

6.) If you hear people pronouncing Shenmu as Shenmu-ey they are not true fans - "if you can't pronounce Shenmue correct then don't talk shit about it."

7.) You are not a true Shenmue fan if you don't thank Yu Suzuki -- you know, technically it wasn't just Yu Suzuki...there were a LOT of talented people in AM2 that worked on that game. It was a team effort.

For those who don't want to watch it....there you have it. Surprisingly there was nothing about the Epic store bullshit or what not. I think he's genuine, just a little too over enthusiastic with the gate keeping. But oh well...moving on.
 
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danielmann861 said:
5.) If you can't name 20 characters in 20 seconds then they're not true fans -- Goes on to name 20 characters.
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Shit! On the top of my head I only remember Ryo, Shenhua, Landi, Ine-san, Nozomi, Ren, Tom the hotdog guy(hes tornado kick was sick back in the days), what is that guys face who flies out of the dojo doors???... getting too old for this fandom...nope still nothing....(why do I keep thinking that Ryo shouts "Ine san!!! when he kneels to help the guy on the ground???)....5 mins later.. still thinking... ahhhhhh it was FUKU SAN!

BRB going to write a hand written letter to Suzuki and demand my money back since Im not qualified as an true fan anymore. Sadly too many years has gone by ..... why FUKU SAN WHY
 
I didn’t watch the video so I can’t verify any authenticity. I do however object to such a thing as a fake fan, in principle. The only way I can agree someone is a fake fan is if they never watched, played, or even heard of Shenmue and is for some reason pretending they have for some nefarious purpose. But like why?

I don’t agree with gatekeeping fandom or the notion that if you don’t act like an obsessive idiot, you’re not a true fan.

Like, in my opinion you can be a fan just by watching someone play it, and enjoying that experience.

Edit: I tried to watch the video but it was too dumb for me to complete it. Good thing being a toxic idiot making dumb bullshit gatekeeping arguments doesn’t make anyone a fake Shenmue fan or the author of this video would be in some hot water!
 
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Deta said:
Shit! On the top of my head I only remember Ryo, Shenhua, Landi, Ine-san, Nozomi, Ren, Tom the hotdog guy(hes tornado kick was sick back in the days), what is that guys face who flies out of the dojo doors???... getting too old for this fandom...nope still nothing....(why do I keep thinking that Ryo shouts "Ine san!!! when he kneels to help the guy on the ground???)....5 mins later.. still thinking... ahhhhhh it was FUKU SAN!

BRB going to write a hand written letter to Suzuki and demand my money back since Im not qualified as an true fan anymore. Sadly too many years has gone by ..... why FUKU SAN WHY
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Lol The village idiot you're thinking of, is Fukosan
 
ShenmueTree said:
I didn’t watch the video so I can’t verify any authenticity. I do however object to such a thing as a fake fan, in principle. The only way I can agree someone is a fake fan is if they never watched, played, or even heard of Shenmue and is for some reason pretending they have for some nefarious purpose. But like why?

I don’t agree with gatekeeping fandom or the notion that if you don’t act like an obsessive idiot, you’re not a true fan.

Like, in my opinion you can be a fan just by watching someone play it, and enjoying that experience.

Edit: I tried to watch the video but it was too dumb for me to complete it. Good thing being a toxic idiot making dumb bullshit gatekeeping arguments doesn’t make anyone a fake Shenmue fan or the author of this video would be in some hot water!
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What are you talking about "but for why" ? After the KS announcement, Shenmue 3, and everything Shenmue ingeneral was the hottest thing on the net, Shenmue discussion even overshadowed the FF 7 remake, hell Shenmue 3 is the 1st, and only project to ever crash KS. It also broke atleast like 3 world records(will be breaking more at the end of the day, by the looks of it).

Making Youtube videos about Shenmue, meant you were going to be making money, and getting a stupid amount of new viewers watching your channel.
 
In my opinion a fan is someone who is genuinely passionate about something. It shows not through their words but more through their actions. In other words, sincerity is the cornerstone of fans and separates them from trend chasers. Since everyone is different their level of passion may vary but at the end of the day they love their particular interest.

Now onto his points.

I). I highly disagree with this point since all Shenmue fans want to see the series succeed. Ironically I find it counterproductive to not care about sales to some degree. This is especially true for fans who’ve waited for Shenmue 3 for twenty years or the fact that the Shenmue IP ended up in development hell because of poor sales. Wanting what’s best for that which you love doesn’t make you a “fake” fan.

II). Once again wanting what’s best for Shenmue doesn’t make you a “fake” fan. Also I find this argument partially disingenuous since one of the reasons people love Shenmue is because of its realism. The unprecedented attention to detail combined with the impressive arcade quality graphics (for 1999) made the world feel alive. There’s no doubt that Shenmue is more than it’s pretty visuals with it’s masterful story, characters, atmosphere, gameplay and music. Those elements prevent the series from becoming shallow, but to pretend that graphics only matter to “fake” fans is wrong. Also there’s no doubt in my mind that if Suzuki had the budget he’d no doubt offer not only the best visuals but the best content too. My only problem with those who obsess with visuals is that that’s the only thing they focus on instead of seeing it as one part of the whole.

III). This point is actually pretty interesting because in my opinion there’s a difference between watching a game and actually playing it. Video games aren’t movies, they’re interactive entertainment that are meant to be played. Videos can serve as good advertisements or guides but they can’t replicate the experience a gamer has from playing the game. Because at the end of the day, no two gamers play the same game the same way. If you need evidence of this just look at a pro fighting game player versus someone who just watches combo videos on YouTube.

Though I do agree that if you’re not a fan of something, you really don’t go out of your way to actually purchase said product (In this case, product being Shenmue).

IV). Like with QTE’s (Which started with Dragon’s Lair in 1983) the open world didn’t start with Shenmue, but it did popularize it.

V). He actually shoots himself in the foot with this point. In a previous point he stated that anybody who simply goes to watch a Let’s Play of Shenmue doesn’t make them a genuine fan. However thanks to the internet, anyone can go online and look up details on the Shenmue series and commit it to heart. How do we know this poster didn’t just do the same thing? And if you did, doesn’t that make you a “fake” fan? This argument would hold more weight if it were made prior to the internet.

VI). This is probably a reference to YongYea’s videos on Shenmue 3 where he pronounces Shenmue as “Shin Moo Eh.” However this is a non-argument, fans pronouncing names and terms wrong doesn’t make one a “fake” fan.

VII). Well that’s a given, Yu Suzuki is the captain of this ship and deserves all the praise he gets. However Sega deserved credit for believing enough in his vision to finance it. And AM2 also deserves credit for doing a wonderful job in crafting his vision.

I honestly don’t know or really care if this guy is a Shenmue fan or not time will sort that out. All that matters in the end is that Shenmue 3 is close and that it’s the fan’s job to make the series successful again.
 
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