Sword of 7 Stars Confusion.

[SMDzero]

S3 confirmed that the sword is used as a key to unlock the scroll in the bell tower.

However in S2 the sword is also used as a key to unlock the magic mechanism to reveal the giant mirrors.

I suppose the sword could have been a key in both instances but it seems redundant so maybe the S2 scene was retconned to remove the sword floating?

It’s weird that the sword has a magical use in S2 but an ordinary use in S3.

We don’t know if the S2 ending was retconned since just because we didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen but S3 made it seem like the sword was just had a 1 time use in the bell tower.

Has Yu Suzuki commented on this? We needs answers.

 

[Crosshatch]

From memory wasn't the magic sword a last minute decision to make the ending more of a spectacle because they felt it was potentially their final hurrah of the series?

 

[SMDzero]

From memory wasn't the magic sword a last minute decision to make the ending more of a spectacle because they felt it was potentially their final hurrah of the series?

Source?

If true bad form for Suzuki making shit up that drove us crazy speculating about for 20 years.

Instead of "The Story Goes On" the ending screen should have read "Dramatization, May Not Have Happened."

 

[spud1897]

Source?

If true bad form for Suzuki making shit up that drove us crazy speculating about for 20 years.

Instead of "The Story Goes On" the ending screen should have read "Dramatization, May Not Have Happened."

OK.....so the original idea was that it was going to be a dagger but they messed the dimensions up and it's a he-man sword.

Interview with Shenmue 2 Designer: Norikazu Hirai | Translation

A blog on the Shenmue series of games from Yu Suzuki with a mission to translate articles, videos and updates for English-speaking fans.

www.phantomriverstone.com

So that side is case closed.

 

[SMDzero]

OK.....so the original idea was that it was going to be a dagger but they messed the dimensions up and it's a he-man sword.

Interview with Shenmue 2 Designer: Norikazu Hirai | Translation

A blog on the Shenmue series of games from Yu Suzuki with a mission to translate articles, videos and updates for English-speaking fans.

www.phantomriverstone.com

So that side is case closed.

Is there a source that says they made up crazy shit for the ending of S2 just to go out with a bang?

 

[spud1897]

Is there a source that says they made up crazy shit for the ending of S2 just to go out with a bang?

I'm struggling to find anything but I'm sure there was.

@Switch might know from the translated interviews etc.

 

[Sonoshee]

I'm struggling to find anything but I'm sure there was.

@Switch might know from the translated interviews etc.

I did read that Yu Suzuki said they weren't sure if there would be a Shenmue 3 after development of Shenmue 2 ended, so they added in the magical aspects to end the game with a bang. This would also explain why all that was retconned at the beginning of Shenmue 3 and the dagger was used on the bell tower instead. It did feel in-your-face in the cave rather than subtle, I have to say.

Hopefully Switch knows the source, but I'll do some digging and try to find it too.

 

[Reprise]

From memory wasn't the magic sword a last minute decision to make the ending more of a spectacle because they felt it was potentially their final hurrah of the series?

Even if that's the case, pretending it didn't happen now is just kinda dumb.

 

[Switch]

Yu Suzuki mentioned it in this Eurogamer article:

Towards the end of Shenmue 2, more fantastical elements began to creep in, though. The floating sword Ryo and Shenhua come across in that Guilin cave always had me worried that Shenmue 3 would throw away the mundane in favour of magic. "When we made Shenmue 2, we knew it was the last one," Suzuki reassures me. "We decided to go out with a bang - that's why there are those fantastical elements in there! Also, in China and in Japan, there's a strong belief, like in England and with Stonehenge and the druids, we get energy from the spirits and the trees and nature. It's called ki, and it translates as feeling and emotion. It's not the same as fantastical fairies and demons - it's more to do with a natural, basic power. We're considering bringing that element into Shenmue 3."

https://www.eurogamer.net/i-could-do-with-a-bit-more-money-yu-suzuki-on-the-return-of-shenmue

 

[SMDzero]

Yu Suzuki mentioned it in this Eurogamer article:



https://www.eurogamer.net/i-could-do-with-a-bit-more-money-yu-suzuki-on-the-return-of-shenmue

Interesting.

We need confirmation one way or another if S2s ending was retconned of not. A lot was retconned including Shenhuas house and clothes so maybe the floating sword was as well.

It’s not fair to create a fantastical ending that left players speculating for 1/5 of an entire century and then say “oh yeah that actually never happened. We just made it fantastical because we never thought we’d actually have to follow up on it, but errrrr…. just shut up and eat some garlic and play face off.”

How are we supposed to play Shenmue 2 now? When we see the sword floating are we supposed to just close our eyes?

When is Sukuki going to sit down for an interview about Shenmue 3 and provide answers?

 

[spud1897]

Interesting.

We need confirmation one way or another if S2s ending was retconned of not. A lot was retconned including Shenhuas house and clothes so maybe the floating sword was as well.

It’s not fair to create a fantastical ending that left players speculating for 1/5 of an entire century and then say “oh yeah that actually never happened. We just made it fantastical because we never thought we’d actually have to follow up on it, but errrrr…. just shut up and eat some garlic and play face off.”

How are we supposed to play Shenmue 2 now? When we see the sword floating are we supposed to just close our eyes?

When is Sukuki going to sit down for an interview about Shenmue 3 and provide answers?

Simple it's likely been changed for 2 reasons.

1. In the opening to Shenmue 3 you only see the mirror.
3. Same in the anime.

It's really not that much of an issue. In fact I'm sure YS even stated in interviews he wanted to go down the more realistic route.

How will you play Shenmue 2? Well.... simple really, like everyone else who has been doing so for the last 4 years.

Of course if we interview YS again we'll ask the question but the reality is that it doesn't matter that much.

@Switch Cheers for finding that article! I knew I read it somewhere.

 

[Sonoshee]

but errrrr…. just shut up and eat some garlic and play face off.”

You don't have to do either of those things lol.
But I liked Face off.

 

[SMDzero]

Simple it's likely been changed for 2 reasons.

1. In the opening to Shenmue 3 you only see the mirror.
3. Same in the anime.

It's really not that much of an issue. In fact I'm sure YS even stated in interviews he wanted to go down the more realistic route.

How will you play Shenmue 2? Well.... simple really, like everyone else who has been doing so for the last 4 years.

Of course if we interview YS again we'll ask the question but the reality is that it doesn't matter that much.

@Switch Cheers for finding that article! I knew I read it somewhere.

I just mean when we see the sword floating in S2, how are we supposed to mentally process what we’re seeing?

When I’m showing S2 to someone for the first time and they are watching the ending and we jump straight into 3, what am I supposed to tell them?

 

[SMDzero]

You don't have to do either of those things lol.
But I liked Face off.

I through face off was daft.

I remember Suzuki saying that roommates like Ryo and Shenhua eventually run out of things to talk about so resort to playing silly games. If that’s the case he should have hired more/better writers to ensure they NEVER run out of things to talk about.

If they HAD to do something else to pass the time … idk what do you think?

Maybe Shenhua could have shown Ryo how to milk cows or how to clean the outhouse?

Shenhua is doing all the cooking for himm (another retcon she described herself as a bad cook in 2 and a good cook in 3) so Ryo should do something to pull his weight and stop being a freeloader.

 

[spud1897]

I just mean when we see the sword floating in S2, how are we supposed to mentally process what we’re seeing?

When I’m showing S2 to someone for the first time and they are watching the ending and we jump straight into 3, what am I supposed to tell them?

Simply state they changed it up as they've wanted to go down a different road.

It's not like other stories haven't changed stuff midway through

 

[Sonoshee]

I through face off was daft.

I remember Suzuki saying that roommates like Ryo and Shenhua eventually run out of things to talk about so resort to playing silly games. If that’s the case he should have hired more/better writers to ensure they NEVER run out of things to talk about.

If they HAD to do something else to pass the time … idk what do you think?

Maybe Shenhua could have shown Ryo how to milk cows or how to clean the outhouse?

Shenhua is doing all the cooking for himm (another retcon she described herself as a bad cook in 2 and a good cook in 3) so Ryo should do something to pull his weight and stop being a freeloader.

... And people call me bitter

 

[SMDzero]

Simply state they changed it up as they've wanted to go down a different road.

It's not like other stories haven't changed stuff midway through

Well I think it’s cheating to retcon stuff and the audience should not accept it.

Imagine if at the start of Shenmue 3 we saw Iwao Hazuki working at the Prize Exchange at the Panda Market and said “Oh hello son, want to exchange your tokens for prizes?”

Sukuki could say “oh we wanted to go a different road so I changed the story so that Iwao is actually alive and all this time Ryo was just avenging the cat in Yamanose that Lan Di ran over.”

Also one of the reasons I wanted Shenmue 3 was to just see Ryo and Shenhua exist in their world after witnessing magic. They would be fundamentally changed as people and I wanted to see that.

 

[Reprise]

In Shenmue IV, they're going to retcon Lan Di killing Iwao and change it to Nozomi being the cold calculated killer. Ryo will now be the love interest of Megami's lost kitten, instead of Nozomi, who will now be called Princess Fluffypaws as opposed to Mimi, Chibi or whatever the other name choice was. Guizhang will also return, but will be of Indian descent, 7ft tall and built like Paul White, the wrestler. Also, Shenhua's outfit will once again change. She will now sport an outfit inspired by early 2000s fashion, with lowrise jeans coupled with a whaletail thong and crop top. Ryo will finally remove his famous bandage from his cheek and grow a mullet.

It's alright though. These things happen. Just enjoy Shenmue. Sometimes things get changed in the story.

 

[SMDzero]

In Shenmue IV, they're going to retcon Lan Di killing Iwao and change it to Nozomi being the cold calculated killer. Ryo will now be the love interest of Megami's lost kitten, instead of Nozomi, who will now be called Princess Fluffypaws as opposed to Mimi, Chibi or whatever the other name choice was. Guizhang will also return, but will be of Indian descent, 7ft tall and built like Paul White, the wrestler. Also, Shenhua's outfit will once again change. She will now sport an outfit inspired by early 2000s fashion, with lowrise jeans coupled with a whaletail thong and crop top. Ryo will finally remove his famous bandage from his cheek and grow a mullet.

It's alright though. These things happen. Just enjoy Shenmue. Sometimes things get changed in the story.

Maybe Air Twister IS Shenmue 4(!). Obviously a few things changed including the name but perhaps Suzuki just retconned Shenmue 1-3 to be just like Air Twister.

 

[James Brown]

I’m a stickler for continuity, but in the case of the Sword, it’s not a blatant retcon, if it even has been. The cutscene at the start of 3 isn’t even particularly needed, as on a second playthrough it’s actually skipped entirely. So I feel that it’s just adding context to the start of a new game and where the characters have come from, so that the game doesn’t just boot to Ryo and Shenhua walking down a random path to new players. Just because the floating sword didn’t show in the remade cutscene doesn’t necessarily mean it’s no longer cannon imo, since it hasn’t been stated otherwise you can make up your own canon for it . I like to think that after the Sword fell down from floating it lost it’s power and shrunk so now Shenhua can keep it on her possession and use it as the key in the Bell Tower! Simple, now lets move onto Shenmue 4