SuperEyePatchWolf: "Shenmue III is a terrible game and I've wasted my life"

[Suzaku]

In a way, III had to happen the way it happened. Could it have been developed better? Arguably yes, but on reflection, the structure is solid in this ongoing story.

Finally other people started to acknowledge this.
Shenmue 3 is a fundamental step for the story.

This is not a basic Ryo VS Lan Di story, if it was, we could have Ryo rushing to the next Lan Di hideout, make some miracle moves, defeat him and return home to live happy with Nozomi, classic plot.

Instead it's the journey of a martial artist, driven by vengeance, who will be involved in a larger plot.

Shenmue 3 was fundamental because we start to follow the foorsteps of Iwao, with Ryo starting to mature a bit, we discover where to go next, and we join with Shenhua, that is the second journey companion (after Ren, that become officially one in Shenmue 3 too).

Then the largest plot finally start to move, with rivalry inside the Chi You Men (Niao Sun Vs Land Di), that cost Ryo his mirror, and now the rush to the cliff temple.

It's a solid stage for what we will see in 4 and 5.

 

[spud1897]

So Suzaku didn't call anyone fake fans when they said this?:


Or is that because they didn't say "x user is a fake fan" so that makes it okay? Honestly the "fake fan" claims are pretty pathetic. It's basic level gatekeeping and it reminds me of angsty incel nerds who think girls aren't real gamers and feel the need to quiz them on obscure gamer culture.

If someone waited 20 years for Shenmue III excited and likely played I and II multiple times then they're not a fake fan. If someone loves Shenmue I and II but dislikes Shenmue III they're not a fake fan. Being a fan of something isn't some qualified thing you need to take a purity test for and it sure as hell isn't something you need to blindly love every game in the series for.

Just for clarity he posted this before my warning so I'm making the call that it's unfair to ban.

But also for clarity @Suzaku any more of this fake fan purge stuff and my warning applies.

 

[Suzaku]

So Suzaku didn't call anyone fake fans when they said this?:


Or is that because they didn't say "x user is a fake fan" so that makes it okay? Honestly the "fake fan" claims are pretty pathetic. It's basic level gatekeeping and it reminds me of angsty incel nerds who think girls aren't real gamers and feel the need to quiz them on obscure gamer culture.

If someone waited 20 years for Shenmue III excited and likely played I and II multiple times then they're not a fake fan. If someone loves Shenmue I and II but dislikes Shenmue III they're not a fake fan. Being a fan of something isn't some qualified thing you need to take a purity test for and it sure as hell isn't something you need to blindly love every game in the series for.

I already explained that to spud, that understood my point.

It's not a simple "you are a fake fan because you doen't like 3". That would be silly.
But more a "you're a fake fan because you're trying to damage a series that you was supposed to love".

Edit. understood spud, I wanted to clarify but you already posted when I replied.
No problem, but people should not feel offended if they understand what I mean.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Solely based on mystery, IMHO only, Shenmue II's cliffhanger ending delivered far better than Shenmue III's. We were all coming up with theories for years about what would happen with the huge twist we experienced. I feel like Shenmue III's ending gave us little to work with, beyond, "Ryo is chasing Lan Di" some more, which is again why I liked Eyepatch Wolf's ending, even if it's a bit on the nose or un-earned. It would've given us a little something to take home, rather than what we ended up with. I suppose there's the mystery of where the gang, including the two characters we barely know anything about, are headed, but... we'll see.

After 18 years of waiting for Shenmue III to unravel a bit of Shenmue II's mystery, I don;'t know if I can wait in suspense to see where Shenmue IV will take us, especially knowing Shenmue III was little more than a wild goose chase that did not deliver on my 15+ years of day dreaming about magical swords and cave mysteries. Will Shenmue IV just be two more towns with some fetch quests and little to no closure? I hope not.

I think an ending that at least provided a TINY bit of closure, considering we have know idea if we're getting a Shenmue IV, would've been a nice gesture to the fan base (the kind-hearted and hopeful note from Ys in the credits IS a nice touch, however).

Of course, this is the subjective portion of my criticism. I can't say the ending is WRONG or that it's poorly written; just my take. I actually enjoyed the ending's presentation, though the comedy could've been cut, quite a bit. I would've liked more cutscenes like that in the game.

 

[Vasid]

I already explained that to spud, that understood my point.

It's not a simple "you are a fake fan because you doen't like 3". That would be silly.
But more a "you're a fake fan because you're trying to damage a series that you was supposed to love".

That's manipulation and you're still wrong and you still sound absurd saying "fake fan, fake fan". It's childish, it's gatekeeping, and I suggest you stop because it only makes you look bad. "Trying to damage" implies ill intent and also implies that a youtube review could damage the game, which it couldn't if Last of Us 2's sales numbers have shown us anything. Assuming ill intent in a fan expressing their frustration at a series changing isn't very charitable, in fact it's quite paranoid. Just because someone has problems with something they love and are speaking up (likely in an attempt to get the developers to course correct for later entries) that doesn't mean they're trying to damage the series in fact quite the opposite. Criticism, when taken in a mature way, causes growth.

Your statements sound like this: "You're a fake friend to an alcoholic because you want to get them to quit drinking!"

 

[Sonoshee]

Please end this line of discussion and get back on topic.

 

[Suzaku]

That's manipulation and you're still wrong and you still sound absurd saying "fake fan, fake fan". It's childish, it's gatekeeping, and I suggest you stop because it only makes you look bad. "Trying to damage" implies ill intent and also implies that a youtube review could damage the game, which it couldn't if Last of Us 2's sales numbers have shown us anything. Assuming ill intent in a fan expressing their frustration at a series changing isn't very charitable, in fact it's quite paranoid. Just because someone has problems with something they love and are speaking up (likely in an attempt to get the developers to course correct for later entries) that doesn't mean they're trying to damage the series in fact quite the opposite. Criticism, when taken in a mature way, causes growth.

Your statements sound like this: "You're a fake friend to an alcoholic because you want to get them to quit drinking!"

I think it's more childish your attempt to be the hero of a lost cause, when I clearly explained my point, and still you don't want to understand.

We live in a world of politically correct, you prefer a sweet lie to a simple harsh truth
You have to decide, you support a series or you destroy it, you can't do both at the same time.

First

-The last of Us is a multi million seller game with a very strong reputation, it's hard for social media to do any damage to it.
Shenmue 3 is a niche game, already damaged by haters and critics since 2015 (as sales shows, that are "disconnected" by the record kickstarter results), and it's a series at risk. A simple hate video can do a lot of damage yes.

Second

-the clickbait title "I wasted my life" shows the true purpose behind 48 minutes of rant

Third

-Since it's a professional youtuber with more than 800k, money is involved, so it's fair to assume there are some ill intent too.

 

[Vasid]

Please end this line of discussion and get back on topic.

What even is the topic here? I've seen people jump in without even having watched the video to complain about just it's title. Honestly this thread has basically devolved to "Forget what was said in the video, time for me to pull out my argument as to why Shenmue 3 is good/sucks and how everyone who disagrees is literally Hitler for the 9000+ time".

I'm all for discussing the actual contents of the video but that seems to have stopped pages ago.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

What even is the topic here? I've seen people jump in without even having watched the video to complain about just it's title. Honestly this thread has basically devolved to "Forget what was said in the video, time for me to pull out my argument as to why Shenmue 3 is good/sucks and how everyone who disagrees is literally Hitler for the 9000+ time".

I'm all for discussing the actual contents of the video but that seems to have stopped pages ago.

I posted about the video a few minutes ago and my post was largely critical of Shenmue 3.

There's no reason to claim you can't criticize the series.

I'm guessing Sonoshee is not interested in the "You're a fake fan/real fan" meta-argument that's going on in the conversation you guys are having.

 

[Your Boy Leroy]

Well, I still think the video is very good.

 

[Vasid]

I posted about the video a few minutes ago and my post was largely critical of Shenmue 3.

There's no reason to claim you can't criticize the series.

I'm guessing Sonoshee is not interested in the "You're a fake fan/real fan" meta-argument that's going on in the conversation you guys are having.

You are making posts about the video, so maybe my statement is a bit hyperbolic. One thing I want to clarify is I never claimed anything about no one being able to criticize the series, though I will say it seems like some users of this site do think that's how things should be done. The admins have generally been very open and kind in this thread and haven't censored discussion as far as I can tell. Hell spud has even stated he doesn't want anyone calling people fake fans.

Anyway, happy to end the argument. Just a shame people have to try and gatekeep because in my opinion that will drive people away from a series more than draw them into it.

 

[Thomasina]

Shenmue 1 and 2 both contain their own stories that are wrapped up nicely in the end and can be judged as their own game and part of the series.

Shenmue 3 should be looked at in the same way.

 

[LemonHaze]

Shenmue 1 and 2 both contain their own stories that are wrapped up nicely in the end and can be judged as their own game and part of the series.

Shenmue 3 should be looked at in the same way.

Awesome. In that case, judging Shenmue III as a standalone game in the series, then I can't see any inconsistencies at all!

On a side note, I honestly think that a lot of Shenmue (all 3 games) have completely went over the heads of a lot of fans and most notably, SuperEyePatchWolf. As @danielmann861 mentioned, Ryo only has 2 of the Wude principles. And from what I can remember, absolutely none of this is touched on in SuperEyePatchWolf's video review.

 

[Sonoshee]

I'm guessing Sonoshee is not interested in the "You're a fake fan/real fan" meta-argument that's going on in the conversation you guys are having.

Exactly. And as Spud says, if we see anymore uses of it we'll take the appropriate action.
Let's just move past it.

 

[Suzaku]

You are making posts about the video, so maybe my statement is a bit hyperbolic. One thing I want to clarify is I never claimed anything about no one being able to criticize the series, though I will say it seems like some users of this site do think that's how things should be done. The admins have generally been very open and kind in this thread and haven't censored discussion as far as I can tell. Hell spud has even stated he doesn't want anyone calling people fake fans.

Anyway, happy to end the argument. Just a shame people have to try and gatekeep because in my opinion that will drive people away from a series more than draw them into it.

What you don't understand is that the argument was closed pages ago, I had explained my point of view, people understood and the discussion moved.
Until you jumped and re-opened the discussion for whatever reason and insisted, just so you can get away because "you wanted to return to discuss to actual content of the video" (???).

Than why reopening the discussion in the first place?
I can't stand hypocrisy.

That said let's return on topic.

 

[Vasid]

What you don't understand is that the argument was closed pages ago, I had explained my point of view, poeple understood and the discussion moved.
Until you jumped and re-opened the discussion for whatever reason and insisted, just so you can get away because "you wanted to return to discuss to actual content of the video" (???).

Than why reopening the discussion in the first place?
I can't stand hypocrisy.

That said let's return on topic.

Your post where you were calling people fake fans was less than 3 hours ago. Not sure what you're talking about.

 

[Suzaku]

Your post where you were calling people fake fans was less than 3 hours ago. Not sure what you're talking about.

of course...
Still you insist.
I wasn't calling anyone, I was judging the maker of the video.

Stop accusing me or I'll be the one calling the admins this time.

 

[spud1897]

Last warning, drop it!

 

[Marcin Gulik]

I thought the video made some valid points as I echo similar issues with the story structure and odd choices like Ryo not knowing who Chai is and some of the dialogue. The stamina system didn't really bother me, and the fighting mechanics are definitely not on par with the originals, but that was expected I guess . I don't think there's any ill intent from the YouTuber; I've watched his previous videos on the series and you can tell he has a love for the series. I'm not understanding why people are getting mad about the video. Could he have picked a better title? Sure. But I don't think people should lose sleep over his video.

 

[Triumph]

In all honesty, the criticisms he levied against Shenmue III are the same generic criticisms every other critic has spouted. Basically, his criticism boils down to two points.

I). Shenmue III is outdated by modern standards.
II). The story is primarily filler.

Some of the criticisms towards Shenmue III I simply cannot understand. While complaints about the English localization are valid, why not just use the Japanese dub? The stamina system never bothered me because food items were cheap to buy and abundant. Making money via gambling is not as convoluted as he makes out to be when you can simply save scum.

Finally, the slow pacing has always been a part of Shenmue. Suzuki even said during a panel that players need to take their time to get the most out of the game. Shenmue III in a lot of ways harkens back to Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka with it's more detailed approach and methodical pacing. My problem was that the first game had a payoff where I felt like Shenmue III didn't.

While I agree with him about the lack of progression, for the most part, I vehemently disagree with him about your encounter with Longsun Zhao. If Iwao Hazuki an experienced martial arts master couldn't land a blow against him, what chance did Ryo honestly have when nothing in the story has indicated as such? Not to mention that the story is only forty percent complete.

The last criticism I have against the video is that he does not seem to understand that the game sold fine. Whether that statement by Embracer was just them saving face or is actually true has yet to be determined. The only way to determine that is to see what happens next for the franchise. Which means making our voices loud and clear that we want a Shenmue IV.

With all that being said, I am in absolute agreement with him about the combat system.

I’m sorry, but the title of the video is the very definition of clickbait.

Aside from being bummed out that someone I know to have been a big fan of the series hated the game so much, I take no issues with him disliking the game and share many of his opinions when it comes to some of the more poorly crafted areas of it, but there were times where his critique seemed incredibly disingenuous.

Take for example his explanation of leaving Shenhua’s house every morning. His video strongly implies that walking into the raised area of the house which triggers the cutscene of Ryo taking off his shoes is something that is very easy to do by mistake and yet in three playthroughs, I don’t recall ever walking up there by mistake (nor do I recall anybody else ever mentioning this).

I can see how somebody might do it once by mistake, but unless somebody has hooves for hands, it would be a very difficult mistake to make twice.

Furthermore, as a big Shenmue fan who played through the game twice, I’d be very surprised if he didn’t engage in conversation with Shenhua enough to have altered the morning routine and yet he chooses to replay the same clip repeatedly so as to suggest there is no variation whatsoever.

I do think that the team could have added a bit more variety in this regard, but hiding what little variety there was from viewers seemed like a deliberate attempt to make the game look worse than it is.

Then there’s his critique of cutscenes, which implies that the weird dips to black are present throughout the entire game rather than something which occurs only in the first five minutes.

I really could go on a lot longer, because pretty much all of his criticisms, whilst grounded in some truth, ended up being exaggerated or misleadingly presented.

As I said, there’s plenty to criticize when it comes to Shenmue 3 and I’m not going to argue with anybody for doing so (as I probably agree with them), but this video felt like a very deliberate attempt to make the game appear worse than it is for the sake of getting a few extra clicks and suiting his ‘Yu Suzuki done a bad game’ narrative.

The following posts from Tsukuyomimagi99 and tomboz are nearly identical to where I stand regarding this video, so I'll try my best provide my take without sounding like an echo. There are other users that posted great opinions as well, but the points that are made in these two posts in particular, sort of connected with me.

First and foremost, I respect the work that this commentator has done by highlighting the accomplishments of the Shenmue III Kickstarter as well as identifying that the game cost around 20 million to develop and market.

With that being said, when reading the title of the video and watching the first 5 mins or so of his "positive" takes on the game, his intentions became clear to me once he began to explain his complaints.

To me, the tone of the complaints comes across as, "I want to jump on the bandwagon along with the Jim Sterlings and Angry Joes of the world to explain to you lovely people that Shenmue III is a cringy relic of an open world experience compared to modern and contemporary entries.", instead of passionate criticisms from a series long fan as he wants to appear throughout the video.

In my opinion, this is a 7 out of 10 game, if 10 is considered to be a masterpiece. As stated countless times from different sources, the complaints of this game such as, the voice acting (English Dub), story progression and the combat mechanics are indeed valid. But, to draw the conclusion that Yu Suzuki should just give up his desire to work on a Shenmue IV, just tells me that he rather be a melodramatic Youtube commentator who wants to charm girls with his pseudo-intellectual and disingenuous voice, instead of critiquing this game in objectivity.

I apologize in advance if this offends anyone, but I just wanted to be honest without attempting to create an echo chamber of positivity.