Spreading the positive Shenmue III word

[高野和泉]

RDR2 is basically Cowboy Shenmue with more graphical prowress and it sold gangbusters. A shenmue game giving it a run for it's money can easily do the same or better numbers no? Shenmue 1 & 2 were victims of circumstances and people were not conditioned for a game that was ahead of its time back in 1999-2000.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I love challenging their silly arguments. They look like completely vain petty nothings after. But just one thing, they are extremely cock sure of themselves and their righteousness. They never shut up, and always try to get the last word in. As long as most see how silly their hate for another free launcher on your desktop really is, it's just fine. Having problems due to the old PC, that I can understand. Complaining about the physical copy only having an installer. they should get the collector's edition worth $64. It should be explained to them just how much data those physical versions would need to have. Still, that too I can understand. Nothing else. Some of them are only on kickstarter though, or that username is. I'm a slacker backer. I did talk to Myraglyph on his twitter but that's nothing. His BS about personal data being lost on Epic needs to be destroyed every time he's posting it on kickstarter. You don't need personal/financial data in the Epic's app itself. Both things just link to your existing accounts, none need to go through Epic. Even if they may have had a problem once he loves retelling, there isn't one now. They aparently sell mods now, that is you can find them via store, but I'm sure they are free after. Still that has to stink just like Steam's workshop compared to Nexus mods. All else is just limited. Cloud saves, oh no, a server fails once, Myraglyph to the rescue letting people know with glee that the saves were lost. Weeks after he complained there were no cloud saves. Just save manually as the devs intended. He's always the worst in my eyes because he's that sanctimonious about it. It's as if he financially invested in Valve corporation. To him, if the negotiations do fail, and (as I hope) Steam never sees Shenmue 3, he doesn't want it anymore. No, he's not a "troo fan", he's a fanboy. I've known plenty of them in 1999- 2001. There are many lesser but still smug versions. I hope the demo coming out made them look even more pathetic. Oh no, no forums, what do you call this, or Gamefaqs, or YouTube pages for each game. Oh no, no guides. YouTube beats any Steam guide. No reviews, YouTube lets you almost touch the game, lets you watch as much of it as you want at times. And discuss the darn thing under the video. Pathetic losers all of them. I say keep showing off parts of the demo you don't think were shown at E3 showing. I found 2 good points so far. YouTube will beat any other social media.

 

[xatruio]

I keep thinking, taking the cost of each game individually, pulled from the ~47mil estimate, we have a budget closer than we assume to the originals when such powerful yet felxible engines exist nowadays.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Spread the positive word but remember the outraged are a very vocal minority and have little-to-no real world effect. We have seen it countless times before , most recently with Days Gone which turned out to be the most successful new IP this year in the UK. The knives were out for that game pre-release big time about how it was going to be Sony's first big flop. Ghost Recon Wildlands was another and that broke records.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/da...uffered-at-all-from-the-reviews-benji.114080/

In fact, type 'Days Gone Looks' right now into google and you get this..

and I look at Amazon UK RIGHT NOW and see this..

#2 and sold out again. The UK is doing a terrible job of boycotting it.

I agree with you. They don't matter in the end. They poison the places where others waiting for their games are going to see any tiny news the devs want to share. That's all. The one with his list killed me. I still remember the list!

 

[Dmitriy1]

I keep thinking, taking the cost of each game individually, pulled from the ~47mil estimate, we have a budget closer than we assume to the originals when such powerful yet felxible engines exist nowadays.

Keep this in mind. Any rights he used to have to his Virtua Fighter assets, forget capsule toys. Were talking kicks, punches, and throws. Were taken away from him for Shenmue 3. Try to estimate how much recapturing every move he knew people would demand back cost him. It's a shame that those 7 million couldn't ONLY be used on characters and locales. This is Shenmue 3 reality. Playing the demo, I really understood how good Yu Suzuki is. Even with all those sticks in his wheels it looks and plays THAT good. I can't wait till November. Replayed the demo many, many times by now.

 

[高野和泉]

Suzuki is a legend. Even when handicapped he's still able to crank out a soon to be masterpiece.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I think its probably not a good idea to give them a extreme huge budget
because the story and setting of Shenmue will never ever attract as many people as a GTA or RDR game.
If you give Suzuki a 400+ million US dollar budget (that Deep Silver and Sega dont have, theres no way)
you will probably send Shenmue right into the next dead end,
because its pretty much impossible to get that kind of money back from a game like Shenmue.
Rockstar Games are completely in their own bubble, RDR 2 had probably a budget
between 450 and 700 million US dollars and the promotion stuff is not included.
Not even games like Uncharted 4 or God of War 4 or any Resident Evil game has this kind of budget
and no modern company on this planet would give 60, 70, 80+ million dollars (modern single player AAA budget)
to a game like Shenmue.
Deep Silvers or Segas budget for their most recent big games is probably around 25-60 million, promotion included
and thats like all-in, they cant do more than that. So even if Shenmue 3 is a huge huge huge success,
i doubt that they will upgrade Shenmue 4's budget from "we are interested, here is a 5 million dollar budget on top"
to "Shenmue 3 was a success, you can have 40 million dollars now."
The risk is just too high to give a niche story game a big budget push. Especially if the story is split up across 5 or 6 games.
How do you want to attract new players to Shenmue 5 or 6?
There is a reason why no company was interested in Shenmue 3 for 14, 15 years.
But i think with the recent trial and Gamescom footage and feedback, we can agree
that a 12-15 mil dollar budget is good enough. The risk isnt too high and we still get a high quality Shenmue experience.

But then Suzuki needs to reuse every asset from 3 he can. Forget about pleasing the degeneration z, and finish the story in the 4th. BTW no company was interested in Shenmue for 15 years? Come on, Billy Bob Gates was very interested, his Xbox just failed in Japan, and he still owned the word Shenmue IP. That I still think is the reason of no Shenmue 3 in 2004, I don't care how many copies Shenmue 2 Xbox sold in the U.S. Even after the imports were already played on the DC in perfect English, shown fine on the American TVs. Shenmue is a Japanese game. Suzuki would have to make it in Japanese for a console the Japanese don't want. Come on now. You can see why it never happened then. As far as comparing to the stupid GTA, I don't care how GTA looks, it could look exactly like a TV show, with zero difference from the actual people and places. It's glorifying a bunch of criminal acts. Acts the devs would hate to be done to THEIR cars, their property. It should have been censored years ago. Oh yes, they sure used to censor TV and movies. The first amendment didn't come up. Also no wonder Yakuza did so well, I played one of them, ughhh. Give me Shenmue looking like it does. I'm totally fine with it.

 

[Dmitriy1]

RDR2 is basically Cowboy Shenmue with more graphical prowress and it sold gangbusters. A shenmue game giving it a run for it's money can easily do the same or better numbers no? Shenmue 1 & 2 were victims of circumstances and people were not conditioned for a game that was ahead of its time back in 1999-2000.

It was more than anything the console it came out on. You may hate it, it had a few RPGs, and a few more adventure games. Overall it was all for sports online, same as a PC can do, but not as good at other things, and a subpar online PSO. Any PC online RPG killed it. It just had Shenmue, THAT was unique, awesome, incredible. I loved it then, and love it still. That console, plus Bill Gates' greed killed Shenmue 3. Many that never owned a Dreamcast are discovering Shenmue only now. Tons more know Final Fantasy 10, also a slower RPG with mini games and similar appeal. Bad choices of what there was on Dreamcast, very, very bad choices of who to sell Shenmue 2 in the U.S. to. Instead of doing it cross platform, especially, oh I so wish a PC. You can imagine any games he wanted made if it was for PC. But that's dreaming, the Japanese don't like PC's for games either. Especially they didn't then.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Haha, thanks. Normally I would have just downvoted and left one that crazy alone, but I really hate the "they're stalling!" trutherism going on. Besides other pressing concerns all parties have around shipping the game, there's a lot of organisation in terms of setting up the process for refunds, determining the exact policy, setting up the delivery of Steam keys next year, etc - all across multiple companies in different timezones, speaking different languages.

I've seen people saying "oh it's easy!" (key Dunning-Kruger behaviour by the way), and I honestly believe these people are so entitled they expect Ys Net to drop everything - when they have a game to ship in November - just to sort this out. If they had their way, they would be more than happy to throw other backers who don't want a refund under a bus, just to get their money back faster. That's the type of people we're dealing with.

And honestly though, even if they WERE stalling to let the issue cool down a bit... what's the problem with that? If someone who wants a refund has a little time to think and says "well okay, maybe I was being a little hasty, I'll take the free Steam key option and play it next year/sell the EGS key off" or even just decides to suck it up and play on EGS (I fall into this camp), isn't it their right to change their mind?

You won't regret sucking it up. It works fine. It downloads after the code is redeemed, installs and you click play. You can then pretend it was on Steam first. The game goes full screen, you can't see the difference...

 

[Dmitriy1]

Cynicism has a bad rap these days, but in ancient Greece it was synonymous with living virtuously in harmony with nature and not getting waylaid by money, power, etc.

People are cynical because most things are beyond the power of the individual to control. This creates a negative feeling and a disbelief in anything you cannot directly see, hear, touch, taste, or smell.

That's what I reckon anyway.

I think they have more control over games, especially Shenmue 3 than they could ever dream of in say 1999. If it was demanded of them to buy a chapter 1 of 11 chapters for $50 they did it. If it was demanded of them to buy a $300 piece of outdated PC parts to get to play Shenmue 2, they sure did it. They never said "they lied!", "this is a scam". If in 2015 I was told I'd have to buy a PS4 to play Shenmue 3, that no PC would ever see it, I'd buy it. But look at what they go on crying about now...

 

[Dmitriy1]

Suzuki is a legend. Even when handicapped he's still able to crank out a soon to be masterpiece.

Yo're not kidding. That demo rocks!

 

[Dmitriy1]

Following on from my previous comment, like the people claiming it was a scam from the start because of Sony's involvement at E3. What are those people smoking? Sony had them on their stage, because it generated hype, helped them "win" E3 and it no doubt helped sell a lot of PS4s. They didn't want to take the financial risk by fully bringing Ys Net in house and financing the project, but were happy to support the KS at E3 in exchange for the attention it would bring Sony. It's a smart business move, so what's wrong with that?

Why are people so cynical?

I just hope it now extends to full support of Shenmue 4. At least a full support of the PS4 versions. That's fair, both versions can be almost the same.

 

[9dragons]

The discussion about the higher budget for a potential S4 is very interesting to say at least. You can call me crazy if you want to but I am am against the idea to give S4 a too high budget. It would kill the continuity of the first 3 games. Or at least it could. With too much money the devs could be tempted to change the graphical style from a more artistic look to the hyper realism train most devs strive for these days.

This could make Shenmue look ugly. I would not be glad if the would scan the face a random japanese dude and use it for Ryo instead of his look in the first 3 games. It would just look weird.

 

[Deta]

The discussion about the higher budget for a potential S4 is very interesting to say at least. You can call me crazy if you want to but I am am against the idea to give S4 a too high budget. It would kill the continuity of the first 3 games. Or at least it could. With too much money the devs could be tempted to change the graphical style from a more artistic look to the hyper realism train most devs strive for these days.

This could make Shenmue look ugly. I would not be glad if the would scan the face a random japanese dude and use it for Ryo instead of his look in the first 3 games. It would just look weird.

I think they nailed the way Kiryu turned out to be in the ps3 and ps4 games. There is no reason they couldnt do the same for Shenmue. I would be very glad to see Ryo look like this with higher polygons in the hopefully up coming games.

Spoiler

 

[Dmitriy1]

I think they nailed the way Kiryu turned out to be in the ps3 and ps4 games. There is no reason they couldnt do the same for Shenmue. I would be very glad to see Ryo look like this with higher polygons in the hopefully up coming games.

Spoiler

Is your problem with him currently his hair? Or is it that he looks a lot closer to his Saturn self? I'm just trying to understand. I saw problems with plenty of NPCs so far, trust me. Ryo was not one of them. Hint the tokens guy near the gambling stalls. Now there is a lot of work to be done. Ryo? He's OK. More than OK IMO.

 

[Dmitriy1]

The discussion about the higher budget for a potential S4 is very interesting to say at least. You can call me crazy if you want to but I am am against the idea to give S4 a too high budget. It would kill the continuity of the first 3 games. Or at least it could. With too much money the devs could be tempted to change the graphical style from a more artistic look to the hyper realism train most devs strive for these days.

This could make Shenmue look ugly. I would not be glad if the would scan the face a random japanese dude and use it for Ryo instead of his look in the first 3 games. It would just look weird.

I just want my throws back. I want him to set THEM up as counters after successful blocks, that would so nail it, I can't even begin. If it will only happen in 4, OK. If a DLC can come out with scrolls teaching them a year or 2 later, but specifically an Epic Games store exclusive/PS4 exclusive, to drive the element a bit crazier. That'd be perfect. LOL.

 

[Tosh]

RDR2 is basically Cowboy Shenmue with more graphical prowress and it sold gangbusters. A shenmue game giving it a run for it's money can easily do the same or better numbers no? Shenmue 1 & 2 were victims of circumstances and people were not conditioned for a game that was ahead of its time back in 1999-2000.

Yeah but its about Cowboys in the wild west with guns, shooting, gore, riding, driving, prostitution ...
Just the setting alone attracts way more players. A 500 mil game from the Last of US, Batman Arkham or GTA devs
will always sell more than Shenmue. It doesnt mean that a 500 mil Shenmue 4 would be a worse game,
it would be a extremely high quality game,
its just that the hype and interest for a Rockstar game will always outperform Shenmue.
RDR 2 sold around 30 mil copies until now, GTA 5 sold over 100 mil copies,
Uncharted 4 sold around 15 mil, God of War 4 around 11 mil,
Shenmue will never ever get these kind of numbers even if its the highest polished product of all time.
The interest for the Shenmue setting isnt big enough and it doesnt help that its a story game with 5 or 6 parts.
And again, Sega or Deep Silver cant provide a budget like this. They dont have that money.
If you give Suzuki a 60 - 700 mil dollar budget, you will risk everything. If that game fails, the IP is completely dead and
then we are in a worse situation than 18 years ago.

 

[Dmitriy1]

I think its probably not a good idea to give them a extreme huge budget
because the story and setting of Shenmue will never ever attract as many people as a GTA or RDR game.
If you give Suzuki a 400+ million US dollar budget (that Deep Silver and Sega dont have, theres no way)
you will probably send Shenmue right into the next dead end,
because its pretty much impossible to get that kind of money back from a game like Shenmue.
Rockstar Games are completely in their own bubble, RDR 2 had probably a budget
between 450 and 700 million US dollars and the promotion stuff is not included.
Not even games like Uncharted 4 or God of War 4 or any Resident Evil game has this kind of budget
and no modern company on this planet would give 60, 70, 80+ million dollars (modern single player AAA budget)
to a game like Shenmue.
Deep Silvers or Segas budget for their most recent big games is probably around 25-60 million, promotion included
and thats like all-in, they cant do more than that. So even if Shenmue 3 is a huge huge huge success,
i doubt that they will upgrade Shenmue 4's budget from "we are interested, here is a 5 million dollar budget on top"
to "Shenmue 3 was a success, you can have 40 million dollars now."
The risk is just too high to give a niche story game a big budget push. Especially if the story is split up across 5 or 6 games.
How do you want to attract new players to Shenmue 5 or 6?
There is a reason why no company was interested in Shenmue 3 for 14, 15 years.
But i think with the recent trial and Gamescom footage and feedback, we can agree
that a 12-15 mil dollar budget is good enough. The risk isnt too high and we still get a high quality Shenmue experience.

BTW what's this about SEGA? If SEGA let him use his own efing work from 1&2, he'd have Ryo Look EXACTLY like so many here are crying about. Have an already polished combat system, saved millions on that alone right there. He'd have such an easier time Shenmue 4 would have been coming out by now. You know SEGA refused him anything in 2012? You know they gave him a barebones licence in 2015? Just for the word Shenmue, and his characters used in it. Nothing else that was made by him for SEGA over 20 years prior. Look, I think Sony wanted to see just how much support he'd get for it now. They still don't understand. It'd make me and so many others buy their damned machines IF they did fully fund him back then, for full exclusive rights till it was older and came to PC, one way or another. That's their short sight. They used to know how to make people buy their consoles so much better. BTW for all of you Steam fanatics, it was always via exclusives. It was always how any of them made big money.

 

[Deta]

Is your problem with him currently his hair? Or is it that he looks a lot closer to his Saturn self? I'm just trying to understand. I saw problems with plenty of NPCs so far, trust me. Ryo was not one of them. Hint the tokens guy near the gambling stalls. Now there is a lot of work to be done. Ryo? He's OK. More than OK IMO.

Hairs? Did I mention something about hairs? Couldnt care less if Ryo looks like cave ogre or Ned Flanders from Simpsons. I dont need to trust your opinion. Your opinions are not factual. The Ryo now and the Ryo in the example picture doesnt look the same. Nothing to do with your opinions. My point is that even though Im fine the way Ryo looks right now, there is still room for a lot of natural improvements which comes with a time and budget. With a bigger budget the transition to more realistic graphics shouldnt be a problem just like it wasnt in a yakuza series.

 

[Dmitriy1]

Yeah but its about Cowboys in the wild west with guns, shooting, gore, riding, driving, prostitution ...
Just the setting alone attracts way more players. A 500 mil game from the Last of US, Batman Arkham or GTA devs
will always sell more than Shenmue. It doesnt mean that a 500 mil Shenmue 4 would be a worse game,
it would be a extremely high quality game,
its just that the hype and interest for a Rockstar game will always outperform Shenmue.
RDR 2 sold around 30 mil copies until now, GTA 5 sold over 100 mil copies,
Uncharted 4 sold around 15 mil, God of War 4 around 11 mil,
Shenmue will never ever get these kind of numbers even if its the highest polished product of all time.
The interest for the Shenmue setting isnt big enough and it doesnt help that its a story game with 5 or 6 parts.
And again, Sega or Deep Silver cant provide a budget like this. They dont have that money.
If you give Suzuki a 60 - 700 mil dollar budget, you will risk everything. If that game fails, the IP is completely dead and
then we are in a worse situation than 18 years ago.

Oh the SEGA comment was you.

Hairs? Did I mention something about hairs? Couldnt care less if Ryo looks like cave ogre or Ned Flanders from Simpsons. I dont need to trust your opinion. Your opinions are not factual. The Ryo now and the Ryo in the example picture doesnt look the same. Nothing to do with your opinions. My point is that even though Im fine the way Ryo looks right now, there is still room for a lot of natural improvements which comes with a time and budget. With a bigger budget the transition to more realistic graphics shouldnt be a problem just like it wasnt in a yakuza series.

Hairs? Did I mention something about hairs? Couldnt care less if Ryo looks like cave ogre or Ned Flanders from Simpsons. I dont need to trust your opinion. Your opinions are not factual. The Ryo now and the Ryo in the example picture doesnt look the same. Nothing to do with your opinions. My point is that even though Im fine the way Ryo looks right now, there is still room for a lot of natural improvements which comes with a time and budget. With a bigger budget the transition to more realistic graphics shouldnt be a problem just like it wasnt in a yakuza series.

Look here http://www.segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Picture-2.png This was his original vision. This was how Ryo the 18 year old almost out of school should have looked like with modern graphics. That's how "a youth growing up through the martial arts training" would look like. Heck, you think I care about YOUR opinions much? Either of our opinions don't matter if that's what the original artist wanted. Still I'm very OK with how Ryo is in the demo. Only Ryo and Shenhua and a few misc characters. Every color Tiger is spot on. Every single one to me. Others, yes, some are better than others. Your opinions are not factual either BTW. They come from comparing with other games I did play, and they looked worse IMO. You want him to look like a 30 year old ex con with a tattoo on his back. He won't be.