Season 2 officially cancelled (for now)

[Nigel]

I mean, who's to say that the games are even 'canon' given that a number of concessions and changes had to be made to Suzuki's original scripts 🤷‍♂️

I've always wanted to make a thread about this (i.e., the philosophy of interpretation and how artworks often develop over time), and this hits the nail on the head. Cheers to the succinct point, @Jibby.

Do we think our favorite songs, movies, novels, etc. are delivered exactly as they were initially conceived of and/or composed? Shenmue in particular has changed much.

To be fair, I'm not suggesting some mere relativism/reader interpretation theory. Moreover, "canon" was established when each game was released.
That said, some folks are perhaps excessively focused, to fault, on exact representation. Even if the anime covered all game content (impossible given different media), would it be "uncanonical" not to use the exact music in every scene/locale? I think some of us are, frankly, too enamored of our young experiences of Shenmue to respect that its story, like all stories, can be told with fluidity.

 

[iknifaugood]

I disagree, why would he prematurely share plans before Shenmue 4’s fate is definitively known?

We know they were trying to shop the prototype which we can infer didn’t go anywhere. We had recent release of Shenmue anime which before it’s unfortunate cancelation due to merger was probably another avenue they were looking for outside funding. Finally they just released mobile game on Apple’s platforms. If it was all quiet on the western front I could sympathize more, but if you compare it to the dark days of Digital Rex, or Suzuki when he first left Sega, we are getting more activity than you can know.

Of course us fans want don’t want to be in the dark but when there is something tangible to share or in the works I’m sure we will hear. As long as Suzuki is actively trying to make it happen, I believe he deserves opportunity to explore all avenues.

I understand that but I think that the timeline for S4 is very different than S3. Twenty years isn’t exactly on the table and if no one is biting now, then what’s his backup plan? I’m fine with him exploring all the avenues, I wish he would explore lower budget options, but I also think he should be upfront with the fans about what he plans to do if it doesn’t work out. Some people spent thousands of dollars to continue the series, the math has changed in terms of Suzuki’s relationship with the fans imo.

 

[code l name]

I understand that but I think that the timeline for S4 is very different than S3. Twenty years isn’t exactly on the table and if no one is biting now, then what’s his backup plan? I’m fine with him exploring all the avenues, I wish he would explore lower budget options, but I also think he should be upfront with the fans about what he plans to do if it doesn’t work out. Some people spent thousands of dollars to continue the series, the math has changed in terms of Suzuki’s relationship with the fans imo.

I am not suggesting that we wait another twenty years for a prospective Shenmue 4 but I think people need some perspective in terms of timelines here. We just had the Shenmue anime released in February, and until a few months ago with the merger, it appeared there was a strong possibility another season was going to be made. How that figured into Suzuki pitching to publishers is unknown but this is all very recent. In addition, the studio from the sounds of things has expanded its office space and released Air Twister this year. Of course in a perfect world, as Cedric alluded to in his interview with the Dojo, the development would have moved ahead right after Shenmue 3 so they could retain some team, work on the existing engine and be close to release by now. Especially with so many games this far into the generation still releasing on last-generation machines, alas it didn't work out that way.

Finally, fans including me spent thousands of dollars on the development and delivery of Shenmue 3. Suzuki and co fulfilled that promise when Shenmue 3 shipped. That ends any sort of obligation frankly fans have, although Suzuki's message at the end of the game underscores his desire to recognize fans' commitment and his desire to find some way of ending the story. If we don't hear a peep in the next 1-2 years and have no possible avenues of continuing the series into games, then I hope he releases a novelization or some other medium but ultimately that will be up to him.

 

[iknifaugood]

I am not suggesting that we wait another twenty years for a prospective Shenmue 4 but I think people need some perspective in terms of timelines here. We just had the Shenmue anime released in February, and until a few months ago with the merger, it appeared there was a strong possibility another season was going to be made. How that figured into Suzuki pitching to publishers is unknown but this is all very recent.

I don't really see how the anime would affect the future of the series in game form unless Suzuki was somehow planning on pivoting the games to match the anime? A second season of the anime would surely have moved the story into Shenmue 4 and beyond so if anything they appear to be at odds with each other.

Finally, fans including me spent thousands of dollars on the development and delivery of Shenmue 3. Suzuki and co fulfilled that promise when Shenmue 3 shipped. That ends any sort of obligation frankly fans have, although Suzuki's message at the end of the game underscores his desire to recognize fans' commitment and his desire to find some way of ending the story.

I disagree with this, I think Suzuki has an obligation to be more transparent about the end of the game considering the entire Kickstarter began with the line "Shenmue's story was left incomplete...". I'm not saying that means Suzuki owes us the ending of the series, but he definitely owes more transparency. And I would think the same if we got S4 and were in a similar position. I think once you bring the fans into something like financing the sequel and the future of the series, your relationship to them becomes fundamentally different.

If we don't hear a peep in the next 1-2 years and have no possible avenues of continuing the series into games, then I hope he releases a novelization or some other medium but ultimately that will be up to him.

He said this year that S4 will not release anytime in the near future, so I doubt we'll be hearing anything about it for a while which is kind of my point. We're 7 years removed from the initial KS announcement and 3 years since S3 released; and with confirmation that there are no plans for S4 in the near future, that means that it's not in development. I also hope he releases a novelization or something and yes, it's up to him, but I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to feel entitled to more transparency from him, particularly in light of the cancelation of the anime. I mean, we did make it the most successful videogame Kickstarter after all...

 

[code l name]

I don't really see how the anime would affect the future of the series in game form unless Suzuki was somehow planning on pivoting the games to match the anime? A second season of the anime would surely have moved the story into Shenmue 4 and beyond so if anything they appear to be at odds with each other.

I don't claim to be well-versed in pitching to prospective investors in the videogame industry, but I would assume that if you could demonstrate the series/brand was thriving and successful on multiple platforms (anime, merchandise) it makes it a lot more attractive to a prospective publisher especially as the entertainment industry continues to use brands/series across multiple different channels. The fact Season 2 is currently dead and only recently may have meant they would have to alter their pitch.

I disagree with this, I think Suzuki has an obligation to be more transparent about the end of the game considering the entire Kickstarter began with the line "Shenmue's story was left incomplete...". I'm not saying that means Suzuki owes us the ending of the series, but he definitely owes more transparency. And I would think the same if we got S4 and were in a similar position. I think once you bring the fans into something like financing the sequel and the future of the series, your relationship to them becomes fundamentally different.


He said this year that S4 will not release anytime in the near future, so I doubt we'll be hearing anything about it for a while which is kind of my point. We're 7 years removed from the initial KS announcement and 3 years since S3 released; and with confirmation that there are no plans for S4 in the near future, that means that it's not in development. I also hope he releases a novelization or something and yes, it's up to him, but I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to feel entitled to more transparency from him, particularly in light of the cancelation of the anime. I mean, we did make it the most successful videogame Kickstarter after all...

I think you and I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. The Kickstarter and fans funding was entirely self-contained to that product and expecting those responsibilities to continue when there is a strong indication they don't want to return to the crowdsourcing model only confirms that in my eyes. In fact, some of the worst elements of Shenmue 3 were the requirement to have fan input, show clearly unfinished work, and be at the behest of fans. I hope if the series continues Suzuki can finish the games on his terms.

 

[iknifaugood]

I don't claim to be well-versed in pitching to prospective investors in the videogame industry, but I would assume that if you could demonstrate the series/brand was thriving and successful on multiple platforms (anime, merchandise) it makes it a lot more attractive to a prospective publisher especially as the entertainment industry continues to use brands/series across multiple different channels. The fact Season 2 is currently dead and only recently may have meant they would have to alter their pitch.

Well if the anime was getting a second season and S3 failed to secure development for S4, it would appear that Suzuki would have an easier time pitching the anime, not the game, particularly since audiences are going to be far less removed from the anime than the game (and it's much easier to rewatch season 1 of the anime than it is to get caught up on 3 games). At the very least I hope that he considers a lower budget that can cater to Shenmue's built in fanbase, rather than chasing the kind of mainstream success it seems that Shenmue is sadly not destined for.

The Kickstarter and fans funding was entirely self-contained to that product and expecting those responsibilities to continue when there is a strong indication they don't want to return to the crowdsourcing model only confirms that in my eyes. In fact, some of the worst elements of Shenmue 3 were the requirement to have fan input, show clearly unfinished work, and be at the behest of fans. I hope if the series continues Suzuki can finish the games on his terms.

I agree with all of this, my only point is that Suzuki should be open about what will happen in the event that he can't secure funding to continue the story (not saying it has to be right this second although I think the cancellation of the anime is as good a time as any). IMO the one thing that the KS entitles the fans to is a degree of closure from Suzuki himself even if it's to say that Shenmue ends on his terms or the story dies with him. What I don't think is fair is to go radio silence for the next X number of years after the fans did literally everything they could to help him out.

 

[ShaunHastings]

I agree with all of this, my only point is that Suzuki should be open about what will happen in the event that he can't secure funding to continue the story (not saying it has to be right this second although I think the cancellation of the anime is as good a time as any). IMO the one thing that the KS entitles the fans to is a degree of closure from Suzuki himself even if it's to say that Shenmue ends on his terms or the story dies with him. What I don't think is fair is to go radio silence for the next X number of years after the fans did literally everything they could to help him out.

I think Suzuki would have to be very careful about any sort of announcement that was along the lines of what will be happening with Shenmue ending if there are no more games coming. That kind of announcement will be interpreted by certain media as giving up on it and admitting the series has no viability and Shenmue is dead in game form. Whilst Suzuki is still well and capable and willing to make Shenmue if/when he can, and with Ysnet still operational, such an announcement would be dangerous imo.

Also, he might not be saying anything because there is literally nothing to say or show atm. Or there are obligations to not say/show anything until the time is right. He knows how much we want to see Shenmue IV, so it's not like he wouldn't say anything for no good reason.

 

[iknifaugood]

I think Suzuki would have to be very careful about any sort of announcement that was along the lines of what will be happening with Shenmue ending if there are no more games coming. That kind of announcement will be interpreted by certain media as giving up on it and admitting the series has no viability and Shenmue is dead in game form. Whilst Suzuki is still well and capable and willing to make Shenmue if/when he can, and with Ysnet still operational, such an announcement would be dangerous imo.

But he said that there are no plans to make S4 in the near future so isn't the damage kind of already done? Like that means that, 3 years out from S3, they weren't able to secure funding for a sequel which means that he's essentially back to square 1. If anything announcing what he plans to do if he can't get funding, or what a timeline would look like would be him taking control of the situation.

Or there are obligations to not say/show anything until the time is right.

This is possible, if there are active negotiations happening, then of course he essentially can't say anything but, I mean, he did say something: he said that there are no plans to make it in the near future and then announced another game. IMO he owes the fans more than that at this point but I understand that the anime was just cancelled so he may be involved with trying to keep that alive. We don't know because he hasn't said anything, which is kind of my whole point.

 

[Seaman]

Personally I would love any message from YS concerning S4. But its not like I feel he owes it, specially because I'm a fan him.
What he really said was theres no concrete plans for S4 at the moment, and then a part that maybe was omitted at your source, reassured Shenmue 4, calling to give the "best next".
No concrete plans its corporate joker card for many things, like others has pointed, publishing deals. He didnt went that far of saying "not in the making" like I take you ultimately understand.
Excuse my grammar
@iknifaugood

 

[iknifaugood]

No concrete plans its corporate joker card for many things, like others has pointed, publishing deals. He didnt went that far of saying "not in the making" like I take you ultimately understand.

If that were all he said on the subject then I would tend to agree but he said that earlier this year, nearly 3 years removed from Shenmue 3's release. 2 years ago he said he believes that S4 will happen and he wants it to appeal to a broader audience, that's much more in line with mysterious wink wink corporate speak so I think he was actually being quite honest about S4 earlier this year, but we also had the anime coming out.

 

[deathofaninja]

The company has not come out and said anything about it cancelled. It could be, sure; but it's not confirmed.

 

[spud1897]

The company has not come out and said anything about it cancelled. It could be, sure; but it's not confirmed.

While technically that's true its all but cancelled.

AdultSwim were the partner pushing the series in the first place and had to convince Crunchyroll to do it. Assuming there's no contractual obligations then Crunchyroll could go it alone. But given the above that's unlikely currently.

This is why we should be tagging the hell out of them, @WBD etc on Twitter to make some noise to push it over the line

 

[Nathanial Essex]

I'm starting to blame and not like Yu so much. Us fans deserve better.

He gets the green light to make Shenmue III, even has at the end "The saga will continue", but doesn't move the story forward barely an inch. Could have wrapped it up then and there but didn't on a naïve certainty that there was going to be a Shenmue 4. And now this anime. Has the chance to bring the story forward but no, just covers the first 2 games and again slapped with a cancellation.

Jesus Christ man, just let us know how it ends. Shenmue 3 and this anime cancellation is likely to be the final nail in the coffin and Yu isn't getting any younger himself.

 

[mrazizpizza]

I'm starting to blame and not like Yu so much. Us fans deserve better.

He gets the green light to make Shenmue III, even has at the end "The saga will continue", but doesn't move the story forward barely an inch. Could have wrapped it up then and there but didn't on a naïve certainty that there was going to be a Shenmue 4. And now this anime. Has the chance to bring the story forward but no, just covers the first 2 games and again slapped with a cancellation.

Jesus Christ man, just let us know how it ends. Shenmue 3 and this anime cancellation is likely to be the final nail in the coffin and Yu isn't getting any younger himself.

While I don’t entirely agree about Shenmue 3, that’s a different conversation that’s been had a million times and I don’t particularly feel like having right now. What I will say about the anime is that Yu was not the creator of it. He was more of a consultant and therefore wouldn’t make the decision about what the anime covers. Even if he theoretically wanted the anime to cover the events after 3 to the end of the story, I’d doubt he’d have any power to decide that. The people at WB and Crunchyroll, who had their money in the pot, would never start a series in the middle of the story because that makes absolutely no sense business-wise to advertise their show.

 

[spud1897]

I'm starting to blame and not like Yu so much. Us fans deserve better.

He gets the green light to make Shenmue III, even has at the end "The saga will continue", but doesn't move the story forward barely an inch. Could have wrapped it up then and there but didn't on a naïve certainty that there was going to be a Shenmue 4. And now this anime. Has the chance to bring the story forward but no, just covers the first 2 games and again slapped with a cancellation.

Jesus Christ man, just let us know how it ends. Shenmue 3 and this anime cancellation is likely to be the final nail in the coffin and Yu isn't getting any younger himself.

You do realise that Yu had little to do with the actual story of the Anime and how it was structured.

He was consulted on things and made changes here and there but largely speaking he let the Anime team get on with it.

 

[Eishen]

What we must do is asking for season 2 to WB and Crunchyroll, all the people that we are here and all that can.
We must keep being constant and keep fighting, and also make the saga known to as many people as possible!

 

[spud1897]

What we must do is asking for season 2 to WB and Crunchyroll, all the people that we are here and all that can.
We must keep being constant and keep fighting, and also make the saga known to as many people as possible!

Speaking my language!

 

[Seaman]

I'm starting to blame and not like Yu so much. Us fans deserve better.

He gets the green light to make Shenmue III, even has at the end "The saga will continue", but doesn't move the story forward barely an inch. Could have wrapped it up then and there but didn't on a naïve certainty that there was going to be a Shenmue 4. And now this anime. Has the chance to bring the story forward but no, just covers the first 2 games and again slapped with a cancellation.

Jesus Christ man, just let us know how it ends. Shenmue 3 and this anime cancellation is likely to be the final nail in the coffin and Yu isn't getting any younger himself.

Let me see the Wulinshu! WAIT! WULINSHU!

Edit: cmon, write, people.overrride muy name goddamut

 

[RyoHazuki84]

What we must do is asking for season 2 to WB and Crunchyroll, all the people that we are here and all that can.
We must keep being constant and keep fighting, and also make the saga known to as many people as possible!

How about we make our own season 2! With sailors! And lucky hit!

 

[Sheephead]

Just saw this and hoped that Shenmue was on there, but it doesn't seem to be Hopefully for the next batch of home releases!!!

Crunchyroll Announces February 2023 Home Video Releases, Including Horimiya

Another month has somehow passed, so it's time once again to take a look at the future of Crunchyroll's home video releases! The solicits for February 2023 are in and there's

www.crunchyroll.com