Kickstarter is the only way

[Sput Vas Normandy]

No.

 

[Dehone]

The Kickstarter damm near made Shenmue a laughing stock. An S4 one would have the wolves waiting and people disappointed in the third game to say "fuck this game", or at the very least, "I'll buy when it comes put but I'm not donating anything".

Nah, kickstarter is a bad move

 

[GhostTrick]

It is a way to get money... but let's have sane expectations.

Shenmue 3 was something desired before it happened. It was that "sequel of a cult classic that wouldn't happen for more than a decade". Shenmue 2 is a cult classic and was very well received at the time. The demand for Shenmue 3, weirdly, existed also among people who never touched the serie, for the sole status of the game, being that game that people wish for, but wouldn't happen.

That's why you can bet a good chunk of the KS backers may not even be familiar with the serie. On top of that, even among fans, it was a different matter.

Shenmue 4 is the sequel of Shenmue 3, a game that didn't review particulary well and that is divise among its fanbase. Even for the most hardcore fans, it's a different matter to put between 300 dollars to 10 000 dollars for the sequel of your beloved game that you've been waiting for more than a decade... and doing the same again for the sequel of a game that released a year or two ago.

If a Kickstarter were to happen, I think people would be a lot more wary toward it.

That's why Shenmue 4 is in a tough spot. A really tough spot. I have no doubt the game is being made as we're talking or might be starting fairly soon.

But here's the deal here: Shenmue 4 can be pitched as a cheaper product to make, since a lot of stuff has been done and can be reused... but on the other hand, a cheaper Shenmue 4 is basically sent to death. Because it might be a worse game than 3. And then, what's the point ?
But Shenmue 4 needs to be a better game and for that, it needs to be pitched as a higher quality product... with more funds this time. And good luck with that.

On top of that, new consoles are releasing soon. Shenmue 3 already looked dated on many aspects compared to many titles on the market. A Shenmue 4 reusing the same assets... wont fare well at all.

It's interesting to see how things will unfold in the end and what kind of Shenmue 4 we are getting, because yes, we are getting it.

 

[Sonoshee]

Shenmue 3 already looked dated on many aspects compared to many titles on the market. A Shenmue 4 reusing the same assets... wont fare well at all.

I think at this point fans care more about story progression than visuals (or should).

Shenmue 4 needs to appease the existing fans. If it gets new ones along the way, bonus, but I think we're at that point now where we just want the series to start answering questions and not trying to throw something in there just to please possible newcomers and publishers.

 

[Sergeynest]

It is a way to get money... but let's have sane expectations.

Shenmue 3 was something desired before it happened. It was that "sequel of a cult classic that wouldn't happen for more than a decade". Shenmue 2 is a cult classic and was very well received at the time. The demand for Shenmue 3, weirdly, existed also among people who never touched the serie, for the sole status of the game, being that game that people wish for, but wouldn't happen.

That's why you can bet a good chunk of the KS backers may not even be familiar with the serie. On top of that, even among fans, it was a different matter.

Shenmue 4 is the sequel of Shenmue 3, a game that didn't review particulary well and that is divise among its fanbase. Even for the most hardcore fans, it's a different matter to put between 300 dollars to 10 000 dollars for the sequel of your beloved game that you've been waiting for more than a decade... and doing the same again for the sequel of a game that released a year or two ago.

If a Kickstarter were to happen, I think people would be a lot more wary toward it.

That's why Shenmue 4 is in a tough spot. A really tough spot. I have no doubt the game is being made as we're talking or might be starting fairly soon.

But here's the deal here: Shenmue 4 can be pitched as a cheaper product to make, since a lot of stuff has been done and can be reused... but on the other hand, a cheaper Shenmue 4 is basically sent to death. Because it might be a worse game than 3. And then, what's the point ?
But Shenmue 4 needs to be a better game and for that, it needs to be pitched as a higher quality product... with more funds this time. And good luck with that.

On top of that, new consoles are releasing soon. Shenmue 3 already looked dated on many aspects compared to many titles on the market. A Shenmue 4 reusing the same assets... wont fare well at all.

It's interesting to see how things will unfold in the end and what kind of Shenmue 4 we are getting, because yes, we are getting it.

I honestly don't care if Shenmue 3 looks dated; for me it looks just fine and I also don't think that Shenmue 4 needs to look much better than Shenmue 3 even coming out on next gen consoles.
People have to realise once and for all that Shenmue is not a triple AAA title anymore; at best it is a double AA or a high budget Indie Game.
Even if Shenmue 4 managed to look next Gen I doubt it would attract many new players.
I might be wrong, but I believe the Shenmue series is right now in a better position as an High budget indie title and using the already made assets in Shenmue 4 means that a greater part of its budget can now be used in cutscenes for the Story and the improvement of other gameplay features.
I rather have a solid Shenmue 4 experience reusing the assets of Shenmue 3; than tacking a greater risk trying to look next gen just to attract new players.
The Shenmue series has a solid fanbase that will continue to support the series and any new player that becomes a fan is an added bonus.
Shenmue 4 is the Do or Die title of the series because if it is not done; then we can all assume the series will be dead forever; but on the other hand if it is done; then Shenmue 5 has a greater chance of becoming a reality even if it means that it will need another Kickstarter because it will be the last game in the series and every fan will surely want to see its conclusion.

 

[spud1897]

Unrelated but @GhostTrick is properly confident Shenmue 4 will happen

Got some insider info

Being serious now, what makes you so confident. Not digging for a wind up or anything just genuinely interested.

 

[GhostTrick]

I think at this point fans care more about story progression than visuals (or should).

Shenmue 4 needs to appease the existing fans. If it gets new ones along the way, bonus, but I think we're at that point now where we just want the series to start answering questions and not trying to throw something in there just to please possible newcomers and publishers.

Which is an even tougher sell for more budget or even a similar one.

I honestly don't care if Shenmue 3 looks dated; for me it looks just fine and I also don't think that Shenmue 4 needs to look much better than Shenmue 3 even coming out on next gen consoles.
People have to realise once and for all that Shenmue is not a triple AAA title anymore; at best it is a double AA or a high budget Indie Game.
Even if Shenmue 4 managed to look next Gen I doubt it would attract many new players.
I might be wrong, but I believe the Shenmue series is right now in a better position as an High budget indie title and using the already made assets in Shenmue 4 means that a greater part of its budget can now be used in cutscenes for the Story and the improvement of other gameplay features.
I rather have a solid Shenmue 4 experience reusing the assets of Shenmue 3; than tacking a greater risk trying to look next gen just to attract new players.
The Shenmue series has a solid fanbase that will continue to support the series and any new player that becomes a fan is an added bonus.
Shenmue 4 is the Do or Die title of the series because if it is not done; then we can all assume the series will be dead forever; but on the other hand if it is done; then Shenmue 5 has a greater chance of becoming a reality even if it means that it will need another Kickstarter because it will be the last game in the series and every fan will surely want to see its conclusion.

I don't really care either, the point I was articulating was merely from a publisher side and the reception side. It'll be even more complicated to sell that.

Unrelated but @GhostTrick is properly confident Shenmue 4 will happen

Got some insider info

Being serious now, what makes you so confident. Not digging for a wind up or anything just genuinely interested.

The context around the game. As I said before, Shenmue 3 not happening was down to 2 main hurdles:
- SEGA either doing it or letting the IP go
- Middleware being available

SEGA now licence their older IPs. And Unreal Engine is easy to licence and use.

And considering how much work was done for Shenmue 3... Everything is set for Shenmue 4 to happen soon. Not late. The more they wait, the more difficult it is to make it happen. Shenmue 4 releasing in 2 years is possible considering a team is already there, trained and lot of systems being in place. Shenmue 4 happening later would mean a lot of things would need to be done from scratch.

 

[Sonoshee]

Which is an even tougher sell for more budget or even a similar one.

It's not though, especially if Deep Silver and Epic are still the partners for 4.
Koch already said that 3 did "fine" on the financial front. And that was with 70k copies already going to backers. They'd potentially make a lot more from the sales of Shenmue 4.

 

[>>GameHacKeR<<]

The other massive problem with sales on the pc at the moment is, Epic game store doesn't offer gifting. I can't imagine i'm the only person here who has yet to buy copies of Shenmue III for friends on the PC.
Deep silver have another 3 sales coming their way when the game arrives on Steam. And probably another copy for myself on GOG so I can have my drm free copy XD.

I'm Sure YSNet and Deep Silver are expecting and will see a spike in sales when it arrives on steam.

 

[GhostTrick]

It's not though, especially if Deep Silver and Epic are still the partners for 4.
Koch already said that 3 did "fine" on the financial front. And that was with 70k copies already going to backers. They'd potentially make a lot more from the sales of Shenmue 4.

That is, if people who bought 3 will buy 4. You're looking at less copies sold, not more.
And Epic wasn't a partner to the game. Epic basically paid Deep Silver which the game saw literally 0 dollars.

 

[Sergeynest]

This image is a simple example of how Shenmue 3's assets can be easily implemented in the development of Shenmue 4.

As we can see, the real Chinese Cliff Temple that might become featureded in Shenmue 4 shares a very similar architecture to that of the various buildings and temples in Shenmue 3; so I believe it will be very easy for the team to create the complex of buildings that compose the Cliff Temple.
This could have also been a possible reason why the team and Yu Suzuki chose this architectural style for Shenmue 3; knowing that they could reuse it in Shenmue 4 as a way to lower the total budget cost of the games development.

 

[Sonoshee]

That is, if people who bought 3 will buy 4. You're looking at less copies sold, not more.
And Epic wasn't a partner to the game. Epic basically paid Deep Silver which the game saw literally 0 dollars.

Note the word "potentially". Fans of the game will still buy 4, even if they weren't too enamored with 3. Why? Answers. And I doubt they'd be so willing to give up on a franchise they've waited 18 years to find closure on.

As for less copies sold, that remains to be seen. If we see the franchise move on outside of Playstation, then we could see more sales if it goes to Xbox and Switch.

And yes; Epic weren't a partner, but they put money in for Epic Store exclusitivity. Epic make money off the game from that store. There's nothing to say they won't do this again with 4.

 

[hyo_razuki]

Sure, fans are gonna buy S4 but I think what GhostTrick meant is they are not gonna go as crazy for it as for S3.

Personally I've made it a point to try to get a hold of every region's physical version of S3 plus Deep Silver's collector's edition.

After the disappointing S3 (I mean the game, not the KS campaign), I will probably only get one PAL and one JAP copy of S4 and that'll be that. And I can't imagine I'm the only fan who feels like that.

 

[Sonoshee]

Sure, fans are gonna buy S4 but I think what GhostTrick meant is they are not gonna go as crazy for it as for S3.

Most probably yes.
Which is why I feel that for Shenmue 4 to sell on par or better we will need to see it go multi-plat. Hopefully Shenmue 3 is just a timed console exclusive for PS4 (despite what Cedric said) and that we'll eventually see it get ported to Xbox and Switch so that it helps sales for 4.

 

[Down by Law]

I think Shenmue 3 is a genuinely great looking game, in terms of environments, weather and lighting. The character models are disjointed and poor overall and if they spend time creating good looking characters in a consistent art style, that would go a long, long way from making it look outdated.

 

[BruceWayne911]

I dont want to see Shenmue 4 go to Kickstarter. This would hurt the series IMO. There was far to much negative press and confusion surrounded around the Kickstarter. Most people thought that Sony was funding Shenmue 3 smh.

However I do hope going forward to Yu Suzuki allows gamers to still be apart of the universe. Like being in pictures, capsule toys, etc. I wouldn't have a probably donating through paypal or Slacker backer for that. It would be a nice way to secure funding from the diehards of the fan base. I know I would spend a few grand easy

 

[9dragons]

You are absolutely right. after the S3 Kickstarter debacle another Kickstarter would not be a very good thing and would not get as much (positive) attention as the previous one. No doubt about that. The only problem is that I sill see Kickstarter as the only way to get an investor.

Too bad we do not have some super rich Shenmue Fans that could help out. .

We should not count on the classic gaming companies now becuase it is really unlikely that they are going to back the 4th game after the dubious history of the first 3 entries in the series. Dubious only from an business perspective of course. Not from a gaming stand point. But the Analysts do not care about the quality of the game. They just want to earn some easy money. Shenmue is the wrong game to make easy money.

 

[Down by Law]

It's annoying that Epic have not stepped in. YsNet would be a perfect fit for their recent projects:

Epic announced the news on Thursday, calling Epic Games Publishing’s arrangement with the developers a fundamental change the developer/publisher model. Epic outlined the terms of its publishing deals with GenDesign, Playdead, and Remedy in a news release as:
Full creative freedom and ownership. Developers retain 100% of all intellectual property and full creative control of their work.
Fully-funded projects. Epic Games Publishing will cover up to 100% of development costs, from developer salaries to go-to-market expenses such as QA, localization, marketing, and all publishing costs.
50/50 profit sharing. Developers earn a fair share for their work — once costs are recouped, developers earn at least 50% of all profits

GenDesign is Ueda's (Last Guardian's) company so they aren't just going for big names.I mean who knows? these are the only initial announcements so hopefully there's some things happening behind the scenes. Seeing as Shenmue was already associated with Epic there's no harm in continuing down this path at this point.

 

[mjqjazzbar]

Perhaps a deal was made in the background and news just isn't ready to be announced?

I certainly don't see the negative in announcing Shenmue IV early, especially since Steam and GOG are coming into the picture soon and I think potential customers knowing a sequel is coming would actually HELP sales, but I'm sure there are lots of complicated business and investor deals to iron out first... Until Shenmue 3 is out everywhere, Deep Silver, etc. need to stay involved with promoting Shenmue 3 and not Shenmue 4, I guess.

 

[Down by Law]

@mjqjazzbar that's probably right r.e business and inverstor deals. Also, It's a confusing message for Epic to put out right now - when Deep Silver is getting ready to promote the Steam release of III, the last thing they need to see is promotion of part IV coming via Steam's most aggresive competitor.