Agreed. They've been terrible beyond belief about the reward deliveries. I mean, on January 9th, they said illustrations would ship "mid to late January". There was zero communication until February 18th, when they finally said the illustrations would be on their way. The physical CD soundtrack and official shirts were to ship "early February", with the rest of the rewards shipping "March or later". I fully understand stuff happens and they put in the original update that things may change, but could you at least communicate that stuff sooner? It took them until TODAY, March 17th, to say that the items that supposedly were shipping early last month, were delayed. Seriously? Think of if Amazon, eBay, or Walmart did that to you. Or the post office.
Is there enough enthusiasm for a Shenmue 4?
- Thread starter stillsense
- Start date
gamesbloke
Big Bad Bloke On A Boat Bloke
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2019
- Location
- ON THE DAMN BOAT!
- Favourite title
- What's Shenmue
- Currently playing
- Yak5+FFVI+DQII+Dreams+Mary Skelter
- PSN
- gamesbloke
- XBL
- gamesbloke
I don't have an intelligent or tangible reason for this so happy to be shot down in flames on this but for whatever reason, maybe the current social climate, maybe my general negative mood, maybe the recent DLC... I just think that S4 is not going to happen.
I can't rationalise how it could exist.
I still got hope. I think...
I can't rationalise how it could exist.
I still got hope. I think...
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2018
I’m curious what exactly you’re taking issue with here.
If it’s regarding the game selling ‘relatively poorly’, this is a little more than an opinion.
Even taking the 4,463 Japanese backers into account and assuming that Shenmue 3 has been one sale shy of charting in Japan every week since it fell out of the charts, Shenmue 3 would have sold less physical copies in its opening 16 weeks on sale in Japan than the HD collection did in its opening two (according to Dengeki / Famitsu / Media Create sales figures). The absolute best case scenario is that Shenmue 3 has sold 37,790 physical copies over here and in all likelihood that figure is significantly lower.
To have been outsold by some bad ports of some 20 year old games is, I think it’s fair to say, ‘relatively poor’.
If it’s regarding Yu thinking that Shenmue 3 is mediocre, the word mediocre means ‘of average quality’. He himself rated the game a 5/6 out of ten. This is an average score both in terms of mean and median.
If it’s regarding the majority of the fan base being underwhelmed or disappointed by Shenmue 3, take a look at the threads on this forum and the general lines of discussion...
Is there enough enthusiasm for a Shenmue 4? - Do fans still care?
Shenmue’s Relevance In Modern Times - How can we make the game relevant?
How much fan-service should be in Shenmue IV? - Yu shouldn’t have put so much fan service into the game.
SegaSammy should take back Shenmue. - Sega would do a better job but probably want nothing more to do with Shenmue.
How to 'modernize' Shenmue IV without losing the essence of Shenmue? - The series is dated and needs to be modernized.
Story Centric Shenmue - The story in S3 was lacking and YS should consider focusing more on the story moving forwards.
Were you happier with no Shenmue III? Or do you prefer living in a post-Shenmue III world? - Speaks for itself.
Shenhua Affinity System Was Not Cut From Shenmue III - Feature that a lot of people assumed was cut because it was barely noticeable was actually in the game.
How do you feel about the rewards distribution? - Rewards distribution has been poorly handled.
What Shenmue 3 Universe would you rather be in? - Only one person voted for the one we are in.
Should S3 be remade for the DC? - Should we remake a game that hasn’t even been out for four months?
Shenmue 3 Improvements/Keeps For Shenmue 4 - Considerably more ‘improvements’ than ‘keeps’.
Do these seem like the topics of conversation that a mostly happy fan base would be having? Even the positive threads like Shenmue 3 is really amazing end up becoming discussions about the game’s flaws.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Dojo is actually a lot more positive than the 500k Facebook group and the Shenmue Reddit. It’s like a hoard of wild Ghost Trick’s swarmed their sites.
Suzuki has stated multiple times that this game was made for the fans and a large portion of the fan base was left disappointed. There’s no escaping that. I’d be very surprised if he set out to make a mediocre game and so in this regard, I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest that he failed to meet his own high standards either.
Kiba
is a platonic form
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2018
- Location
- World Citizen
- Favourite title
- Shenmue III
- Currently playing
- Shenmue III
- Steam
- softmuseum
Of course there is. Literally all of the negativity around Shenmue 3 was initially trolling from people who never liked Shenmue and resented the positive movement we created. Their negativity created a social media avalanche when combined with algorithms specifically designed to create mass divisiveness by dividing any group of people into 2 opposing camps and then flooding each side with the others' posts (which maximizes clicks), thusly reinforced by wealthy publishers who hate crowd funding and the really fickle and flimsy gaming journalism establishment (as they always have been). Given these obvious factors, it was inevitable that there would be a meaningless loud negative reaction to Shenmue 3, partly by a few killjoys, mostly artificial, all bound up in the overall push against the democratization of game development. Shenmue 3 isn't the first success story to be demonized by the various forces that despise Kickstarter and more distributive game markets. Remember, gaming is a multi-billion dollar industry, and the last thing the big publishers want is a distributive/democratic profit-model, and they own the media. So, please don't believe the negative propaganda. Shenmue 4 should happen, and if it does get a chance to be crowdfunded, it would receive an adequate amount of funding from fans again -- not as much as after our 20 year wait, but nearly so if Yu Suzuki promises a conclusion to the story.
As for the above post, those sales numbers are largely irrelevant, since they are more than adequate profit for the development costs. The notion that niche isn't profitable is propaganda by a confluence of negative forces, publishers and media, supportive of a global centralized gaming industry who aim for tight control over the audience and with very little diversity of content in order to eventually (exclusively) stream least common denominator content to millions of people for a subscription fee. No joke, Shenmue 3 became a locus of that major political battle, of which there are other elements as well, such as Shenmue's highly traditionally moralistic story and gameplay, which are fully against the grain of selling increasingly shocking and offensive violent content or on the flipside at least socially progressive content, no matter how anachronistic or inappropriate to the story, setting, and so on. So, right from the start Shenmue 3 had no reason to treated positively by the mainstream media, and every reason to be treated negatively, and that has become the narrative without ever addressing the game in itself or the game relative to the first games. The propaganda technique is basically to constantly set up arbitrary contexts and comparisons to show Shenmue in any negative light whatsoever. There's a lot more going on behind the scenes that explain the unreasonable negative narrative. And as humans are quite social animals and predictable, the type of personalities who loudly share opinions online -- and negative opinions are easiest to generate -- will tend to mirror what they think is a negative official line. For a 3rd title in a series that ended when most active gamers today weren't even born yet, the numbers are above average. Compared to the cost input, the numbers are good if your expectations correspond to a distributive definition of success, like other indie games. Shenmue 3 had to be made an example of by big business because it was a failed mainstream title that tried to go independent, and didn't at least serve some kind of political purpose that would benefit the centralization and standardization of game design.
It's Betteridge's law of headlines, that anytime a headline forms a question, the answer is always "no" or at least presumed to imply the most negative answer. So, if you take a look at the few articles you posted:
Is there enough enthusiasm for a Shenmue 4? - Do fans still care? No & no.
Shenmue’s Relevance In Modern Times - How can we make the game relevant? The implication is the game is irrelevant to modern times, so the journalist doesn't have to argue this point; he just establishes it is the case to begin with. These are really old and puerile propaganda techniques. There is no sophistication to the negative media spin that was purchased by the above highly political forces against Shenmue.
There's really not much more worth saying about it. It's common sense. I could go step by step into the details, but why? People who loved Shenmue 1 & 2 love Shenmue 3. People who never really did would feel no sense of continuity with 3. Everybody's different; it's that simple. But journalists who have a responsibility to be objective totally failed as journalists in their coverage of Shenmue 3 as they do with most games and films. That's why art editorials are ephemeral. What will matter in the long run, whether Shenmue 4 is made, whether the Shenmue series will be remembered as art in 100 years, for example, is whether sufficient numbers of intelligent fans still exist and share their positive experiences with the games. Happy Console Gamer/Johnny Millennium's coverage comes to mind.
By way of comparison, ever go try to read movie reviews from like 1970's America? In that world of competing political interests and out the economic structures of that time and place, Star Wars was complete niche trash. The critics tore the film apart. But then magically it wasn't, and by word of mouth basically it became profitable. And it lived. And then it became extremely popular and was remembered fondly by concrete people outside of the web of social contexts that created the original official, ephemeral negative narrative. Star Wars became important to ordinary real people as art. And regardless of what you think of the Disney trilogy, the original films have indisputably become a lasting part of the popular culture across the world. It was all due to fans. Shenmue is not Star Wars. It doesn't have the universal appeal. It will remain niche for a long time. But it has large numbers of dedicated fans and it could easily live on despite ephemeral negative narratives, exactly as it already did once. Because even back in 1999 the official reviews outside of those controlled by Sega were typically negative for many of the same or similar political and economic reasons as today (then it was largely due to Sega being the target of much wealthier competitors).
What's left... Oh, right. The notion that a large portion of fans are unhappy with Shenmue 3. Doubt it. I see a lot of rage about some fans being unhappy with the Epic exclusivity deal on PC, being angry with the overall online-only nature of Epic and all modern PC game stores, opposition to the way the Kickstarter was supposedly handled, and so on. That is, some fans are frustrated with every structural element besides the game itself, and apply their dissatisfaction to arbitrary criticisms of the game because they are overall never going to be happy with anything. Not my concern. Why not support offline indie gaming as well as enjoy Shenmue 3? None of that is Yu Suzuki's fault, nor can anyone cogently argue that Shenmue 3 isn't a direct continuation in practically every way compared to the original games. I am done typing now. End of text wall.
Go play good games, be open to diverse positive experiences, and choose to be happy.
As for the above post, those sales numbers are largely irrelevant, since they are more than adequate profit for the development costs. The notion that niche isn't profitable is propaganda by a confluence of negative forces, publishers and media, supportive of a global centralized gaming industry who aim for tight control over the audience and with very little diversity of content in order to eventually (exclusively) stream least common denominator content to millions of people for a subscription fee. No joke, Shenmue 3 became a locus of that major political battle, of which there are other elements as well, such as Shenmue's highly traditionally moralistic story and gameplay, which are fully against the grain of selling increasingly shocking and offensive violent content or on the flipside at least socially progressive content, no matter how anachronistic or inappropriate to the story, setting, and so on. So, right from the start Shenmue 3 had no reason to treated positively by the mainstream media, and every reason to be treated negatively, and that has become the narrative without ever addressing the game in itself or the game relative to the first games. The propaganda technique is basically to constantly set up arbitrary contexts and comparisons to show Shenmue in any negative light whatsoever. There's a lot more going on behind the scenes that explain the unreasonable negative narrative. And as humans are quite social animals and predictable, the type of personalities who loudly share opinions online -- and negative opinions are easiest to generate -- will tend to mirror what they think is a negative official line. For a 3rd title in a series that ended when most active gamers today weren't even born yet, the numbers are above average. Compared to the cost input, the numbers are good if your expectations correspond to a distributive definition of success, like other indie games. Shenmue 3 had to be made an example of by big business because it was a failed mainstream title that tried to go independent, and didn't at least serve some kind of political purpose that would benefit the centralization and standardization of game design.
It's Betteridge's law of headlines, that anytime a headline forms a question, the answer is always "no" or at least presumed to imply the most negative answer. So, if you take a look at the few articles you posted:
Is there enough enthusiasm for a Shenmue 4? - Do fans still care? No & no.
Shenmue’s Relevance In Modern Times - How can we make the game relevant? The implication is the game is irrelevant to modern times, so the journalist doesn't have to argue this point; he just establishes it is the case to begin with. These are really old and puerile propaganda techniques. There is no sophistication to the negative media spin that was purchased by the above highly political forces against Shenmue.
There's really not much more worth saying about it. It's common sense. I could go step by step into the details, but why? People who loved Shenmue 1 & 2 love Shenmue 3. People who never really did would feel no sense of continuity with 3. Everybody's different; it's that simple. But journalists who have a responsibility to be objective totally failed as journalists in their coverage of Shenmue 3 as they do with most games and films. That's why art editorials are ephemeral. What will matter in the long run, whether Shenmue 4 is made, whether the Shenmue series will be remembered as art in 100 years, for example, is whether sufficient numbers of intelligent fans still exist and share their positive experiences with the games. Happy Console Gamer/Johnny Millennium's coverage comes to mind.
By way of comparison, ever go try to read movie reviews from like 1970's America? In that world of competing political interests and out the economic structures of that time and place, Star Wars was complete niche trash. The critics tore the film apart. But then magically it wasn't, and by word of mouth basically it became profitable. And it lived. And then it became extremely popular and was remembered fondly by concrete people outside of the web of social contexts that created the original official, ephemeral negative narrative. Star Wars became important to ordinary real people as art. And regardless of what you think of the Disney trilogy, the original films have indisputably become a lasting part of the popular culture across the world. It was all due to fans. Shenmue is not Star Wars. It doesn't have the universal appeal. It will remain niche for a long time. But it has large numbers of dedicated fans and it could easily live on despite ephemeral negative narratives, exactly as it already did once. Because even back in 1999 the official reviews outside of those controlled by Sega were typically negative for many of the same or similar political and economic reasons as today (then it was largely due to Sega being the target of much wealthier competitors).
What's left... Oh, right. The notion that a large portion of fans are unhappy with Shenmue 3. Doubt it. I see a lot of rage about some fans being unhappy with the Epic exclusivity deal on PC, being angry with the overall online-only nature of Epic and all modern PC game stores, opposition to the way the Kickstarter was supposedly handled, and so on. That is, some fans are frustrated with every structural element besides the game itself, and apply their dissatisfaction to arbitrary criticisms of the game because they are overall never going to be happy with anything. Not my concern. Why not support offline indie gaming as well as enjoy Shenmue 3? None of that is Yu Suzuki's fault, nor can anyone cogently argue that Shenmue 3 isn't a direct continuation in practically every way compared to the original games. I am done typing now. End of text wall.
Go play good games, be open to diverse positive experiences, and choose to be happy.
Last edited:
spud1897
Administrator
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2018
- Location
- England
- Favourite title
- Shenmue II
- Currently playing
- Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
- PSN
- spud19870
The 500k is full of the same people complaining quite a but, invariably more of them as it's a larger space.
I avoid Reddit lol
Social media on the other hand has seen a much more positive response and I've said for quite sometime sales of Shenmue III will likely be a slow burner.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2018
To suggest that the backers who donated to the Kickstarter and were annoyed by the Epic deal never cared about Shenmue seems a little ridiculous. That they had backed the project in the first place clearly suggests otherwise and whether or not you agree with their rationale for being critical of the project doesn’t negate the validity of their frustration.
To suggest that these people are the sole source of the negativity surrounding the game also seems very reductive. Whilst I’m sure there are some sad-sacks still harping on about the Epic deal in some dark corner of the internet, the majority of people seem to have moved on (either from the disappointment caused by the Epic deal or the series as a whole). The vast majority of the negativity surrounding the game at present stems from people’s’ frustrations with the game itself.
You say that another round of crowdfunding would yield an ‘adequate’, albeit smaller, budget, but this sentiment in itself seems rather contradictory. By all accounts, the budget for Shenmue 3 wasn’t adequate for Yu to be able to realize his vision for the game and so a smaller budget would likely once again lead to compromises.
I’m sorry, but I’m not even going to entertain the idea that ‘big media’ has been systematically plotting to sabotage Shenmue as I find it a little preposterous, but I don’t see how you can write off the poor sales figures as being irrelevant.
Shenmue 3 had a budget of $12m, so a little bit of napkin math tells us that the game needed to sell around 400,000 copies at $60 just to break even (bearing in mind that about 50% of sales are eaten up by other costs). Whilst we don’t have the exact figures, those that we do have suggest that sales were quite a way off hitting this number. A multimillion dollar endeavor failing to break even is in no way irrelevant, especially if the team are looking to secure further funding for future games.
Again, I’ve no interest in discussing the idea that the media is out to get Shenmue, but I think you may have missed the point of me linking those threads. Those weren’t articles written by evil journalists trying to browbeat the unwashed masses into hating Shenmue to destabilize the future of crowdfunding; they were threads on this forum posted by long term fans of the series.
They’re not ‘highly political forces’, just some people who were disappointed with what they got from Shenmue 3 and many of them have valid criticisms.
The bulk of the criticism actually seems to be coming from fans of the series. There are plenty of people on these forums alone who love the original series but found Shenmue 3 to be a little underwhelming.
As for the evil media, I’d be very interested to read some of these reviews that you speak of. Whilst I can’t claim to have read every review written about the game, I came across many positive reviews and whilst the majority were a little more negative; even as a fan of the game I find it very difficult to argue with the things that they’re criticizing.
If you haven’t seen any valid criticism from fans then you clearly haven’t been looking very hard.
If you enjoyed the game and can find no flaws with it, that’s great and I’m very happy for you (I say this sincerely as I would love to have loved Shenmue 3 the same way that I loved Shenmue 2). Sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that fans aren’t complaining about various aspects of the game isn’t going to silence those complaints though. They exist every bit as much as your praise for the game.
Going back to my quote about people needing to learn the definition of opinion, I mean posts that just objectively say the game is "bad" while providing no evidence that it is so. You don't like it? Great, I don't care, and post away about it while trying to have a discussion. But the whole tired shtick of just saying the game sucks and Yu must be "out of touch" or whatever is just your subjective opinion. Learn that.
I can negate all of your claims about sales data (what little we have) by pointing you to Embracer's CEO, which is the parent company of Koch Media, who owns Deep Silver: "Shenmue III was the principal revenue driver in the quarter...[for Deep Silver.] "
"Financially, it did fine."
While I am of course interested in sales numbers, it broke world records on Kickstarter, had a bunch of negative press against it (needlessly so, regardless if you buy in to what Kiba is saying or not), and had a bunch of weird decisions at best regarding its entire development/press cycle. And the publisher is happy with it, as is Shibuya via Cedric Biscay. So we can keep hoping to change THEIR minds, but I think they probably know a little more than us, especially after having said so.
Regarding the Dojo, social media, etc. positive or negative, this is all anecdotal. There is a reason that real analyses of anything ever don't rely on anecdotal evidence. Now, if someone took a sample of all threads on all of the communities that are, let's say, linked from Ys Net's Shenmue III website, and then combined those with social media hashtags, you might be on to something. But for every link or article you post individually, I can raise you an exact number of positive quotes, posts, etc. that contradict it. We shouldn't be trying to paint a specific narrative....we should instead rely solely on facts. And the only fact from anywhere in our posts besides your sales data, is the quote that trumps it, further up in this post, from Embracer's CEO.
I can negate all of your claims about sales data (what little we have) by pointing you to Embracer's CEO, which is the parent company of Koch Media, who owns Deep Silver: "Shenmue III was the principal revenue driver in the quarter...[for Deep Silver.] "
"Financially, it did fine."
While I am of course interested in sales numbers, it broke world records on Kickstarter, had a bunch of negative press against it (needlessly so, regardless if you buy in to what Kiba is saying or not), and had a bunch of weird decisions at best regarding its entire development/press cycle. And the publisher is happy with it, as is Shibuya via Cedric Biscay. So we can keep hoping to change THEIR minds, but I think they probably know a little more than us, especially after having said so.
Regarding the Dojo, social media, etc. positive or negative, this is all anecdotal. There is a reason that real analyses of anything ever don't rely on anecdotal evidence. Now, if someone took a sample of all threads on all of the communities that are, let's say, linked from Ys Net's Shenmue III website, and then combined those with social media hashtags, you might be on to something. But for every link or article you post individually, I can raise you an exact number of positive quotes, posts, etc. that contradict it. We shouldn't be trying to paint a specific narrative....we should instead rely solely on facts. And the only fact from anywhere in our posts besides your sales data, is the quote that trumps it, further up in this post, from Embracer's CEO.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2018
Users shouldn’t need to state that an opinion is an opinion. If, for example, somebody says that Shenmue 3 is a good game, it should be fairly obvious to anybody reading it that that is their opinion. If you have trouble differentiating, that’s on you, not them (just to be clear in case you weren’t sure, this is my opinion).
Those comments don’t at all contradict or trump the figures that I posted. Shenmue being the ‘key revenue driver’ doesn’t tell us whether or not the game sold well. All it does is tell us that it sold more than the other new releases in that quarter. Without context, it tells us next to nothing about actual sales numbers.
As for the game doing ‘fine’, what exactly does that entail? Without knowing what Deep Silver’s expectations were or whether this assessment was taking the revenue from the Epic deal into account, it also doesn’t mean too much. If, for example, they got $9m for exclusivity (like the publishers of Control did), then Shenmue had done ‘fine’ before it even released considering they only invested $4-5m into the project.
That he went on to call it a niche series that wasn’t suited to the mass market and went out of his way to avoid giving any actual numbers could be seen as an indication that the game hadn’t sold well and the figures we have seen would certainly back this up (again, just to be clear, this is an opinion).
On the other hand, the numbers that I posted in my last post are an accurate account for the absolute best case scenario when it comes to total physical sales in Japan. They tell us a lot more about the sales figures than a couple of poorly elaborated quotes from a CEO who views Shenmue as a niche game. Do you think that those figures are ‘fine’ when compared to sales of the remasters? Do you think that they’re ‘fine’ considering the budget of the game? Do you think that they’re ‘fine’ considering the actual number of physical sales in Japan is probably considerably lower?
People and companies use anecdotal evidence to make decisions all the time and the notion that anecdotal evidence should be ignored because it’s unquantifiable is a little laughable, especially given the context of this discussion. We’re literally having it in a thread titled ‘Is there enough enthusiasm for a Shenmue 4?’ in which many people have said that their enthusiasm for the series is waning. Their opinions aren’t ‘facts’ but pointing out that they and other people have these opinions is and whilst I’m sure you could cherry-pick some positive posts from throughout the forum, I’d be very surprised if there is a single member of this forum who hasn’t at some point expressed some indication that they were unhappy with at least one element of how the development of Shenmue 3 was handled.
Just a staff member's opinion that you should probably cool it with the condescension. Yes, just an opinion.
It should be common sense, but in my eyes, there is a bit of a holier than thou air with some of the comments such as "YS got all of these things wrong". Stop with the absolutism. Or else go on 500k and join that cesspool.
You can feel free to try and spin it negatively, the fact that the publisher is happy, as is an investor from the beginning of the project, is great news. Aside from that, we have slight bits of fact, and the rest is speculation.
Your assertion that the community at large hates Shenmue III is based on "I've seen it on social media" and then several links from a hardcore fan site. Hardly factual. Again, if I cared to try and paint the narrative, I could go and find several quotes from people who have enjoyed the game. So basing your entire opinion on a few internet links and posts is probably not objectively getting the whole picture. In all reality, it's likely more of a mixed bag from critics and fans alike on who enjoyed the overall game, and I'm fine with that. I enjoyed the game, freely admit it has flaws, and I will sleep like a baby regardless of who thinks I'm right or wrong.
It should be common sense, but in my eyes, there is a bit of a holier than thou air with some of the comments such as "YS got all of these things wrong". Stop with the absolutism. Or else go on 500k and join that cesspool.
You can feel free to try and spin it negatively, the fact that the publisher is happy, as is an investor from the beginning of the project, is great news. Aside from that, we have slight bits of fact, and the rest is speculation.
Your assertion that the community at large hates Shenmue III is based on "I've seen it on social media" and then several links from a hardcore fan site. Hardly factual. Again, if I cared to try and paint the narrative, I could go and find several quotes from people who have enjoyed the game. So basing your entire opinion on a few internet links and posts is probably not objectively getting the whole picture. In all reality, it's likely more of a mixed bag from critics and fans alike on who enjoyed the overall game, and I'm fine with that. I enjoyed the game, freely admit it has flaws, and I will sleep like a baby regardless of who thinks I'm right or wrong.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2019
Kickstarter? No.
A better funded and well architected sequel can put things on track and is the only way this series will continue in a fashion similar to the first two.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2018
I’ve made no such comments, but it sounds like you’re saying that having a negative opinion isn’t allowed on this forum anymore. If that’s the case, what’s the point? Negative (and positive) feedback is essential for helping companies to improve their products and were we to simply avoid talking about the things that we didn’t like, the series would probably suffer from the same issues moving forward.
If it’s simply a case of you wanting people to write ‘It’s my opinion that...’ before criticism, this seems a little redundant because, as per my earlier post, this should go without saying.
I’m not trying to ‘spin’ anything, merely pointing out that the sales figures we have are quantitative whilst the comments made were qualitative and an opinion based on many unknowns. In an earlier post you suggested that we should place fact above opinion, but it seems like here you’d rather place opinion over fact because it suits your narrative better.
There’s a big difference between being disappointed or underwhelmed with elements of a game and outright hating it and I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth in this regard. My opinion is based on the things that I’ve read from members of the fan base and whilst I haven’t read every single post from every single fan, I don’t think that I need to do this to form the opinion that there are a significant number of fans who were disappointed by Shenmue 3 to some extent. It’s somewhat inconsequential as this is my opinion and whether right or wrong, I should be able to express it without condescension and veiled threats.
I welcome positive or negative thoughts about any sort of issue, Shenmue or otherwise. Simply saying "game sucks" doesn't really get us anywhere though. There are multiple threads, including this one, where people have been discussing positives and negatives. And I won't put a stop to any of that. Never have, never will. Just try to be constructive in what you're saying. It's like me saying "game was great, YS got everything right". Adds nothing.
The CEO's opinion means a little more that yours or mine when it comes to sales. Japanese sales may not have been high, but all we have to my knowledge are that and a week of Spanish charts I think? Doesn't paint the whole picture, only a very small fragment. That and the game's release won't be over until this November...maybe we could get some Steam sales then. Again, I have no narrative other than to be happy that the publisher is happy. I'm not arguing sales were bad because that's subjective, but clearly the people who risked money on this game are happy, so that's about as factual as we're gonna get for the time being, unfortunately.
Again, you're free to have whatever opinion you like, positive or negative. My initial post wasn't even aimed at you, but rather others several posts back. Just keep things constructive is all I'm saying. And my saying that may not have been the best way to put it, so I apologize if I came off as threatening. But the condescending tone of constantly reminding me when you stated an opinion was unnecessary, especially seeing as how I wasn't even talking to you initially. Regardless, I shouldn't have done it to you either, so sorry about that.
Sorry for the lack of quotes, I'm typing this on my phone.
The CEO's opinion means a little more that yours or mine when it comes to sales. Japanese sales may not have been high, but all we have to my knowledge are that and a week of Spanish charts I think? Doesn't paint the whole picture, only a very small fragment. That and the game's release won't be over until this November...maybe we could get some Steam sales then. Again, I have no narrative other than to be happy that the publisher is happy. I'm not arguing sales were bad because that's subjective, but clearly the people who risked money on this game are happy, so that's about as factual as we're gonna get for the time being, unfortunately.
Again, you're free to have whatever opinion you like, positive or negative. My initial post wasn't even aimed at you, but rather others several posts back. Just keep things constructive is all I'm saying. And my saying that may not have been the best way to put it, so I apologize if I came off as threatening. But the condescending tone of constantly reminding me when you stated an opinion was unnecessary, especially seeing as how I wasn't even talking to you initially. Regardless, I shouldn't have done it to you either, so sorry about that.
Sorry for the lack of quotes, I'm typing this on my phone.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2018
No worries. It felt as though your initial post was directed towards me as it came directly after my post and didn’t contain any quotes that suggested otherwise. As I found the tone a little condescending, I replied in a similar fashion which, in hindsight, was perhaps a little childish, so my apologies for that.
Comments like ‘game sucks’ might not be constructive themselves, but I still think they’re important as a metric for gauging the overall satisfaction of the fan base as a whole. Sure, they’d be a lot more helpful if they explained what exactly they thought sucked and why the posters felt that way, but ignoring or even prohibiting these kind of comments could be detrimental to the series moving forwards.
History has shown us that the future of the series is, in some part at least, reliant on the enthusiasm of the fan base and acknowledging their issues and addressing them where possible may well be a factor in determining whether or not we see a fourth or fifth game.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2018
In my case I'm not as ecstatic for S4 as I was for S3.
But it doesn't really have to do with the quality of S3, it's more of a "chapter closed" of my life.
I'd still back S4, not for the same amount, because even in I do criticize the game quite a bit 90% of the time I've played the game I was in pure joy, and playing a bunch of newer games now due to being at home because the coronavirus spread, there are very few games that can hit those notes Shenmue plays.
But it doesn't really have to do with the quality of S3, it's more of a "chapter closed" of my life.
I'd still back S4, not for the same amount, because even in I do criticize the game quite a bit 90% of the time I've played the game I was in pure joy, and playing a bunch of newer games now due to being at home because the coronavirus spread, there are very few games that can hit those notes Shenmue plays.
Sonoshee
Account Removed at Users Request
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2018
- Favourite title
- Shenmue
- Currently playing
- Cookie Cutter
Not true. It's already been established that many people donated for various reasons, i.e. because they wanted to help out a veteran developer, or they knew people who wanted continuation of the franchise for well over a decade. It wasn't just people who wanted the game desperately who backed.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2019
How many is many? Do you have any figures to prove that many people simply wanted to help out the developer or the fanbase?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2019
Shenmue IV could never have the enthusiasm behind it that III had as it was the impossible made real. I believe every true fan of the original games want to see this story to completion and those that are bailing out after III either never cared that much to begin with or kickstarted it due to FOMO. I would also argue the majority of people who kept their expectations in check (i.e it's a crowdfunded game, not a Ubisoft/EA game with the budget and manpower to match) enjoyed the final product.
The biggest hurdle Shenmue IV has are all these supposed fans I see everyday ragging on this game at any opportunity. You'd be hard pressed thinking this was a Shenmue fan site. Things were certainly much more friendly and exciting in the run up to the games release.
The biggest hurdle Shenmue IV has are all these supposed fans I see everyday ragging on this game at any opportunity. You'd be hard pressed thinking this was a Shenmue fan site. Things were certainly much more friendly and exciting in the run up to the games release.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2018
- Favourite title
- Shenmue IIx
- Currently playing
- Ghost of Tsushima
- PSN
- mjqjazzbar
The biggest Shenmue defender on the forum's been on a sabbatical for like four months. Once he's back he'll whip us into shape. Is he coming back? (Spaghetti)
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2019
Because S3 wasn't released yet. All we had to go off of was our love of the first two games and the anticipation of the third.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2019
Trust me. There were plenty of websites with many examples of poor journalism with the knives out for the game, way before release, especially after the epic 'scandal'. But we banded together as a community to make wrongs right and to put things on a truthful narrative where we could.