IGN: Yu Suzuki Talks Shenmue 4, Air Twister, and 40 Years of Game Development

[thedemon1238]

1. Literally every open world game lets you do this in one way or another, just to a matter of degree. For every building you can explore in Shenmue, there are 10 that you can't even enter. 90% of GTA5's map will remain unexplored if you just follow the story.

2. Shenmue 3 doesn't even let Ryo explore all of Bailu Village in the beginning, and Niaowu has all kinds of arbitrary roadblocks and shortcuts to gate progression. Even Shenmue 1 doesn't allow Ryo to go to the harbor until the story dictates...

Yes but shenmue games are doing it better! :) Obviously many other games like Spiderman, Red Dead Redemption 2, most MMO games, etc... also have great views. It's hard to explain if you didn't feel it yourself, but there's some kind of realness to the world of shenmue.
For example :

1. You can open drawers - But you can open drawers ONLY in YOUR house/hotel room/ place that you investigate. You don't open drawers in other people house. You don't enter other people house. Ryo always wonder around ONLY in public places or abandoned buildings.

2. Public transportation doesn't work at night. They have a schedule until around 11:30 p.m - You must go somewhere far away from your house fast. What do you do? Maybe you need some kind of vehicle? Ryo doesn't steal cars, that's not freedom in his real world. The only logical explanation is to use the phone and call a close friend, who will pick up the phone at this late hour and give you his bike.

3. Open World - If you think of Shenmue as a game that illustrates the real world within our character, you will immediately understand what the blocked places are for. He has no business going to the port for no reason. What's the point of doing it?
The game teach us to not "stray from the path" and slowly introduce the player to the environment around Ryo's world.

The weird thing is that Yakuza feels more like an arcade game than Shenmue, even though the latter was made by an arcade legend. I have to admit, though, that Yokohama feels a bit like Shenmue. It's not that strong of a feeling, but there are actually times when I enjoy walking around and explore the details in Yakuza 7/Lost Judgment. :)

However, the world of Shenmue has something uniquely real about it. I can't exactly describe it, but it's like it was created first, and then some gameplay was added to it. It's like it existed before the game, as strange as that sounds. :) You know, nowadays level design is made entirely with gameplay in mind. Creating detailed locations that have their own life (as well as logic) and are unrelated to gameplay will be met with questioning by many modern level designers.

 

[Jesse]

It's always nice to see Yu doing interviews just in general I wish he did these more often. I'm always beyond happy that Suzuki has plans for more games.

I don't know what to take from this regarding Shenmues future? I suppose nothing has changed and we're in a wait and see approach. A 0 style game would definitely be enticing but I would want that after the saga is concluded.

Honestly i would rather have a remake at that point versus a zero. I just don't know what a 0 could add to Ryos story plus doesn't the anime cover some things that we didn't already know? A remake and seeing Nozomi Tom Lan Di and the gang the rain snow effects/weather system in Unreal would be a absolute treat.

Having said all that I believe 4 absolutely has to come first and be the final swan song to this magnificent saga. Here's hoping he has IV in the pipeline.

 

[Suzaku]

That's exacly what I meants for "shenmue world's rules".

With Shenmue, Suzuki create FIRST a world with rules that works on its own (example, NPCs doesn't wait Ryo or the player to live their life, or to solve a quest, while in a standard game, all the world is set around the player, if the played don't act, the whole world will not move, a NPC will remain in the same place forever, the quest will remain open forever etc.)
only then he made the rest of the game.

 

[iknifaugood]

They are just huge barren maps with nothing inside.

In Shenmue 2 you have like 1000 rooms you can enter freely, all crafted individually.

You'll have to square these two for me. If you think that GTA style open worlds are huge barren maps with nothing inside (a criticism I think is valid of most open worlds btw) then what would you call the 1000 rooms in Shenmue?

What's the most immersive and believable experience between the two in your opinion?

Currently the most immersive believable experience imo is RDR2. GTA5 has the underlying structure for it but for me it's a tone thing; GTA is like South Park. RDR2 is much closer to what I would imagine a modern version of Shenmue would be like from a simulation perspective.

2-That's not an issue, any RPG opens gradually in areas you can explore, features, functionalities etc. as story progresses.

Also Shenmue is a game that follow a set of precise rules.

You were just arguing that FREE is defined by being able to go where you want such as second floor balconies just to enjoy the view and now you're saying you have to follow precise rules. I can see what you're driving at but this is part of these essential contradictions of Shenmue. This is why I think the story is so important because when the reason that you're prevented from progressing doesn't make sense, it breaks the immersion that is key to the game.

 

[Demon's Triangle]

I don't really want a prequel, I want to find out through Ryo's eyes the truth of why his father allegedly killed Sunming. I think that's the most dramatic way to do it, if they make another game.

But I'll be open for some non-linear flashbacks with young Lan Di or Iwao, as we learn the truth about how he was seduced by the Chi You Men, I think that character has more to him than meets the eyes, and might not be so villainous, but what Ryo might become if he got his revenge.

 

[iknifaugood]

Yes but shenmue games are doing it better! :)

Shenmue is great for its time but I hardly think it stands up to the best modern open world games.

1. You can open drawers - But you can open drawers ONLY in YOUR house/hotel room/ place that you investigate. You don't open drawers in other people house. You don't enter other people house. Ryo always wonder around ONLY in public places or abandoned buildings.

Isn't this just another way of phrasing your point that in GTA you can only enter like 10 buildings?

2. Public transportation doesn't work at night. They have a schedule until around 11:30 p.m - You must go somewhere far away from your house fast. What do you do? Maybe you need some kind of vehicle? Ryo doesn't steal cars, that's not freedom in his real world. The only logical explanation is to use the phone and call a close friend, who will pick up the phone at this late hour and give you his bike.

Yes, being beholden to realistic schedules is kind of a novelty but it is basically abandoned in S2. You can do pretty much everything you want whenever you want during waking hours and the wait function makes up the difference. I will say that Ryo having close friends is something that is woefully under explored in S1. I think you can go the whole game without interacting with Naoyuki up to that point.

3. Open World - If you think of Shenmue as a game that illustrates the real world within our character, you will immediately understand what the blocked places are for. He has no business going to the port for no reason. What's the point of doing it?
The game teach us to not "stray from the path" and slowly introduce the player to the environment around Ryo's world.

In the beginning of Shenmue 3, Shenhua's father has been kidnapped and Ryo refuses to go into sections of a small mountain town to go look for him. In Shenmue 1, Ryo has to find a bar where sailors hang out and won't go to the harbor? These kinds of inconsistencies really stick out during repeat playthroughs.

You know, nowadays level design is made entirely with gameplay in mind. Creating detailed locations that have their own life (as well as logic) and are unrelated to gameplay will be met with questioning by many modern level designers.

It just doesn't come cheap. All the time, money, and effort it takes to make something that can be completely ignored by the player is better served elsewhere. It's one of the reasons that Breath of the Wild felt so fresh; damn near the entire game is optional content.

 

[Suzaku]

You'll have to square these two for me. If you think that GTA style open worlds are huge barren maps with nothing inside (a criticism I think is valid of most open worlds btw) then what would you call the 1000 rooms in Shenmue?

Simple, GTA introduced a way to make OW games with maps that soon become way too big for what western OW games usually offer.
Shenmue instead created the open world in the sense of a smaller scale but living world, more dense and detailed.
That's the reason of my example about 1000 rooms in the "small" world like shenmue 2, compared to only 10 building in the whole New York City in GTA4.

Currently the most immersive believable experience imo is RDR2. GTA5 has the underlying structure for it but for me it's a tone thing; GTA is like South Park. RDR2 is much closer to what I would imagine a modern version of Shenmue would be like from a simulation perspective.

I agree about RDR2.
It's also curious people made similar criticism for both RDR2 and Shenmue.

You were just arguing that FREE is defined by being able to go where you want such as second floor balconies just to enjoy the view and now you're saying you have to follow precise rules. I can see what you're driving at but this is part of these essential contradictions of Shenmue. This is why I think the story is so important because when the reason that you're prevented from progressing doesn't make sense, it breaks the immersion that is key to the game.

It's FREE but the freedom is set on precise rules (example Ryo cannot jump around like other OW games, he will walk like a normal human person in real life etc.)
That's also the reason of the initial restriction about where he can go. At the beginning of adventure he doesn't have any reason to go to the harbor, or in Bailu village, as soon as he arrived, he will no wander aimlessly just like a normal person in a new country, and so some area are restricted.
But that's just the initial phase of any RPG, not just Shenmue.

When areas are opened because story progression, player can freely decide if he wants to go to the harbor or not, even to just to enjoy the scenery.

You would have a point if for example, the harbor area was always restricted and tied to story progression for the whole game, but that's not the case.

 

[xatruio]

love idea of Iwao Shenmue Zero

not til after shenmue4/5 though.

 

[Sailor-San]

There are plenty articles about the recent interview in Germany. IGN Germany etc. They are overall positiv.

 

[iknifaugood]

That's the reason of my example about 1000 rooms in the "small" world like shenmue 2, compared to only 10 building in the whole New York City in GTA4.

While I agree that Shenmue 2 errs closer to the "small, dense" world design that I tend to favor; we have to include S3 in this mix and I found Niaowu to be one of the most pointlessly huge and empty "open" worlds I've ever played. It again comes down to what people want out of Shenmue--some people prioritize big 3D spaces with lots of buildings and NPCs, which is not something I expected from the series as Ryo heads into rural China to train in martial arts.

That's also the reason of the initial restriction about where he can go. At the beginning of adventure he doesn't have any reason to go to the harbor

He has a reason when he's looking for sailors.

in Bailu village, as soon as he arrived, he will no wander aimlessly just like a normal person in a new country, and so some area are restricted.

Areas aren't restricted, Ryo just says he won't go to certain places which is at odds with his objective which is that Shenhua's father has been kidnapped and thugs have taken over the village. He should be scouring the entire place!

But that's just the initial phase of any RPG, not just Shenmue.

This is true but most games (including Shenmue 2) are a lot better about hiding it.

the harbor area was always restricted and tied to story progression for the whole game, but that's not the case.

What do you mean by this? It's tied to story progression in the sense that you can't go to the harbor before the story allows you to. Similarly, getting the forklift job is also tied to story progression.

 

[9dragons]

It is nice to hear from Yu San again. I would not be that fond of prequel though. I would prefer a continuation of the current storyline. I do not see anything positive a prequel would add to the mix.

Learning more stuff about Iwao would not be the worst thing but you could tell his story as well in S4 or 5 in some flash back segments.

A full-blown prequel would turn the series in the wrong direction. But that's just me.

 

[japalp]

It is nice to hear from Yu San again. I would not be that fond of prequel though. I would prefer a continuation of the current storyline. I do not see anything positive a prequel would add to the mix.

Learning more stuff about Iwao would not be the worst thing but you could tell his story as well in S4 or 5 in some flash back segments.

A full-blown sequel would turn the series in the wrong direction. But that's just me.

I think you mean "a full-blown prequel would turn the series in the wrong direction" otherwise the other part of your post wouldn't make sense.

While I respect other Shenmue fan opinions that the story is not important, there is a significant part of the Shenmue fandom that does continue playing the game and being a fan to see the ending of the story. This includes me. Yes, I enjoy some other aspects of the game not related to the story, but not all of them. Again, I enjoyed Shenmue 3, mostly because I am interested in the story and that it is a fairly unique experience in gaming which I want to support.

In my opinion, the reality here is that the games haven't sold enough to continue as is (assuming what is heavily implied by this interview is correct and they are not working on Shenmue 4 currently). Something has to change. Clearly a lot of gamers don't like playing Shenmue.

I do think it is in the series best interest to complete the story first. Whether that is in one more game with less budget, or some other form like a manga, etc. Once the story is "complete" in whatever form that is, then there is always the possibility of future games or other things that can fully flesh out Yu's original vision.

I know a lot of us like the game as is but we will always have the first 3 games. I think story completion needs to be the priority at this point in order to potentially give the franchise a chance in the future.

 

[9dragons]

@japalp Yes my mad. of course, I meant a prequel and not a sequel.

And yes the discussion if Shenmue 4 should end the story and not 5 or maybe even 6 comes up regularly. My opinion on that matter has not changened. I think Yu San should end the series at his own terms and if he needs more games to finish the story so be it.

But I can respect the opinion of the other fans that want a closure with the next game even if the orginal storyline has to be cut down so everything can fit into just one final game.

 

[Reprise]

and I found Niaowu to be one of the most pointlessly huge and empty "open" worlds I've ever played.

I have to agree with this. That whole portion of the game had me scratching my head a bit. At least finding the Chobu Chans was fun.

 

[ahmed_alency7]

I think you mean "a full-blown prequel would turn the series in the wrong direction" otherwise the other part of your post wouldn't make sense.

While I respect other Shenmue fan opinions that the story is not important, there is a significant part of the Shenmue fandom that does continue playing the game and being a fan to see the ending of the story. This includes me. Yes, I enjoy some other aspects of the game not related to the story, but not all of them. Again, I enjoyed Shenmue 3, mostly because I am interested in the story and that it is a fairly unique experience in gaming which I want to support.

In my opinion, the reality here is that the games haven't sold enough to continue as is (assuming what is heavily implied by this interview is correct and they are not working on Shenmue 4 currently). Something has to change. Clearly a lot of gamers don't like playing Shenmue.

I do think it is in the series best interest to complete the story first. Whether that is in one more game with less budget, or some other form like a manga, etc. Once the story is "complete" in whatever form that is, then there is always the possibility of future games or other things that can fully flesh out Yu's original vision.

I know a lot of us like the game as is but we will always have the first 3 games. I think story completion needs to be the priority at this point in order to potentially give the franchise a chance in the future.

I think shenmue 4 is in development remember how quiet he was during shenmue 3’s time

 

[ahmed_alency7]

Guys, remember in 2014 when Yu Suzuki was asked in interviews about Shenmue 3 he would talk about it as if he wasn’t working on it with his classic “if the circumstances are right, I’d like to make it.” Meanwhile, he was busy at that point behind-the-scenes doing preliminary work to get the Kickstarter project ready with Sony in-time for E3. He could very well be working on Shenmue 4 here as well, while speaking about it as if it’s not being worked on and this is just interview NDA speak. Until he says “Shenmue 4 isn’t happening, we’re not working on it” - we can do as Cedric says and Keep the faith!

Brilliant response @japalp you should read this

 

[japalp]

Brilliant response @japalp you should read this

Yep - I remember. But I have been keeping the faith for a loooong time….I think asking for at least 10 more years for two more games to complete the story is too much even for my mentally challenged fandom to comprehend. That would be asking for us to wait for almost 35 years. I know this is Yu’s lifework but it shouldn’t be the fans also just to get a conclusion to the story.

 

[thedemon1238]

It's impossible to end 60% of the story with one game. At least not without heavy cutting. How can that be good?

Have you considered that you might not like the story as much? Cut to pieces, with no opportunity to unfold, the story might not be as interesting as it can be. If they finish everything with 4, then there is no going back.

There is an old interview on the youtube Dojo channel with Ryan Payton. Few people have listened to it, but there he shares that the story of the games after 3 ( 4-5-6) is written loosely (I can't find the right word to use right now.... Maybe not loosely, but on a high level without details...). In short, there is scope for expression and development of dialogue and situations at a lower level. The main story is written, but there is still a lot of work to be done, when the development of concrete game starts. They just need minimum 5 games if not six.

Every year there's Yakuza game in the last twenty years. Sometimes two in a year. Two more Shenmue games are nothing for god sake! Let's see if they can deliver 4, then everything will be possible.

 

[Sonoshee]

I have to agree with this. That whole portion of the game had me scratching my head a bit. At least finding the Chobu Chans was fun.

I think you're both being quite harsh.
Shenmue 3 didn't have the luxury of a AAA budget like the ones it is being compared to (GTA, for instants).
I found Niaowu a lot of fun with its mini-games, side quests, training areas and overall atmosphere.
I get that it wasn't perfect, but again, Yu didn't have the courtesy of a AAA budget anymore.
At this point it feels like people are hating just for the sake of it. Shenmue 3's faults have been discussed to death. If you didn't like it, move on. Find something that does make you happy instead. Just a thought.

 

[Kenzo130]

Shenmue 3 has the best gameplay in the franchise imo, the only big downside was the story (and the combat) but overall the game was good, and the art style was very nice I don't get all the hate from "fans", I get it from people that are not shenmue fans or doesnt really know shenmue because shenmue is a special game its slow, and it's not for everyone.