Would Shenmue have more success on the Saturn?

NeoSnk

NeoSnk

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"What if" post :joycat:

Do you think if the first two games were released for the Saturn as we see on that demo trailer, would the series be more successful?

Saturn was more popular in Japan and then the third game could have been released for the Dreamcast!
 
With respect, I think that would've a bad outcome, however historically interesting.

The Saturn did sell better in Japan, but the series also received (in terms of sales, unless I'm very mistaken) a better reception in the West. To limit it to the Saturn would've crippled exposure (and potential sequels). I doubt we would've seen a Shenmue II, much less III, on any console if the original released on the Saturn.

Moreover, the form of Shenmue we would've received, regardless of region, would likely have lacked the polish and charm that could be achieved by means of the Dreamcast. I still think the timing of Shenmue for Dreamcast was lightning in a bottle: it was perfectly advanced enough to wow when it did. It would've been crippled or dated if it released in the previous or following gen, respectively.
 
That's an interesting question. I like such what-if scenarios. I am not sure if the Shenmue series itself had been more successful, the series could have helped Saturn a lot to gain popularity.

In case that video was running on a stock Saturn (as some people suggest)


The Saturn would have been more popular among gamers for sure. The faces in that game looked way better than most Playstation games.

On Saturn, the series also might have reached more people in Japan because the good old Saturn was popular there.
 
It would ve gave the system a airballoon to hold of. But at the end of the day it was AM2 product, meanining only they were able to make something such amazing thing. And AM2 were known for not sharing their tricks.

As Nigel well pointed, its unclear if the beta runs on Saturn or the unreleased enhanced Saturn 2 (iirc RAM expanded and new gpu at one point).
I believe it could be stock Saturn at that point. Its npc empty, has slowdowns here and there and it was AM2 :p

In the graphics aspect, if they released DC Shenmue in 1999 with delays, they switched development sometime in 1996/1997 meaning the beta "build" (it may run/stream from devkit to console) should be end of 94/95. Quake was just to be released or still in development.
In PSX, to get such a out of its time face animations... Maybe Tecmo's Deception III: Darle Delusion and from a far position. Those were vertex animated mouth versus texture swap, seriously this prototype breaks my mind.

But I doubt this title or series alone wouldn't saved neither Saturn or Sega from its demise, being such a niche game vs. the massive flow of mainstream titles we saw on PSX and N64.
 
Maybe we will never find out the full potential Saturn had when real experts are programming for it. Shenmue Tech Demo could be the proof for that if it was really running on a normal Saturn Hardware. No matter how often I watch the Trailer I am always very impressed by it The Facial Animations are so advanced for the time frame compared to Ps1 and even the N64. I am not so sure if it was better as some of the pc stuff as well though. I was more the console player and not so much a pc gamer. So maybe in the Pc space, there was something better on the horizon.

And Sega was beyond saving at that point. Not even the best game in the world could have saved them. The general gaming public, retailers, and the gaming press included lost faith in Sega after its mistakes with the 32x and the Saturn. They were done with Sega and never gave Sega a fair chance again.
 
Yes. In fact I think it would have revolutionized the gaming industry in a way where Shenmue would have been almost universally revered. The awkward dialogue and the meme-ness of Shenmue would have been forgiven since we were in the first era of 3D gaming. If Shenmue was released on the Saturn and they got it out before Metal Gear Solid, it would have been a game changer.

I've always felt like that Shenmue Saturn was supposed to be the MGS of it's generation. But it wasn't meant to be.
 
It’s an interesting question and something to hypothetically consider.

One thing I know for sure is if it was released on Saturn I probably wouldn’t have been exposed to it or played it. I also feel the increased power of Dreamcast and longer development time allowed Suzuki and team to fulfill and create an even larger vision and landscape.
 
If the Mega CD and 32X never existed and there wasn't an arrogant power struggle between Sega of Japan and America then Saturn Shenmue might have had a chance; however, I do think it's for the best it came out on the Dreamcast (success aside). That said, AM#2 were miracle workers with the Saturn. Do think about it though; considering how difficult the Saturn is to emulate, I couldn't see a re-release of Saturn Shenmue come 2018. A remake, perhaps? But that's going down another rabbit hole!
 
No, the Saturn was in bad shape either way. The only thing people were really buying for the Saturn in great numbers was Virtua Fighter. With the third party developers favoring the PS1, difficult hardware to work with, the "299" and the Sega CD crap, it was fighting an uphill battle. Who was trying to throw, or even had the money to throw at a Saturn after dropping several hundred on the Sega Add-ons just a couple years earlier?
 
Absolutely not. It would have been a low-quantity limited release of a single game only, dumped onto store shelves and quickly forgotten, except for fetching 3 or 4 figure prices on eBay for old used copies.
 
9dragons said:
Maybe we will never find out the full potential Saturn had when real experts are programming for it.
Click to expand...

Yu Suzuki once said that only 1 in 100 programmers had the talent to program the two CPU's inside the Saturn and that's why he thought just one CPU would have been preferable.

That said, when a programmer could get those two CPU's working in harmony, good God...
Development teams like AM2 and Team Andromeda worked pure wonders with them.

And I am still amazed by the transparency effects by Sonic Team in Burning Rangers.
 
Sonoshee said:
Yu Suzuki once said that only 1 in 100 programmers had the talent to program the two CPU's inside the Saturn and that's why he thought just one CPU would have been preferable.
Click to expand...
Do you have a source for this? This is the first time I've ever read this. Unless I just read and forgot it.
 
I don`t think so. I personally don`t believe software sells hardware as much as people think it does. And since the sales figures of the Saturn and Dreamcast are quite similar it wouldn`t have made much of a difference in my estimate. I mean Mario Kart 8 sold 8 mio on WiiU and essentially the same game with an added battle feature sold whopping 48 mio units on Switch.

Now the end of the Dreamcast translated quite well into the competitive console market so Shenmue 2 didn`t feel outdated on XBox. If a game made in the Saturn engine would have translated as well into competitive hardware is quite doubtful.

The question I`m asking myself is if the XBox was the right fit for Shenmue 2... I loved the XBox back in the day but honestly the PS2 would have been a better fit but I guess considering how much SEGA was invested in the XBox that was never an option.
 
9dragons said:
He mentioned it in an interview in the next generation magazine. I cannot remember which issue.

If you are interested you can browse through the magazine

Category:Next Generation scans - Retro CDN

retrocdn.net retrocdn.net
Click to expand...
Found it! It was issue 11, page 11 (of the pdf). However, the "only 1 in 100 programmers" quote isn't quite accurate.

1672714139626.png

I'm not sure what the original source of the "Trying to program two CPUs" thing is, however. Perhaps it's an another issue?

Either way...it is weird to see Suzuki rebutting an misquote people are still getting wrong, all the way back in the 90's! This is why citing an source is always helpful, people!
 
Yes, there is another interview in an earlier issue. You found the one where Suzuki-San corrected the misquote.
 
Still struck me these days his level of transparency on his hardware, still competing, pointing the flaws and possible fixes. I believe he was sending that message for Sega's next console: "fixes (single decent chip=DC) and not workarounds/patching (salad of past-gen chips=Saturn)".
That type of vocalism must have brought him more than a few scolds overtime, that I'm sure about.
Thanks to the three archeologist implied at bringing out this declarations.
 
No. But Shenmue could've had considerably more success if it had not been released in the West a full damn year after its Japan launch! I still struggle to believe this, what were they thinking?! Ideally it should've been a launch title really on 9.9.1999
 
A earlier release would have been a good idea that's for sure but Shenmue was not ready when the DC launched in the States in September. It was released on the 29th of December 1999 in Japan. But yeah it really sucked that we had to wait until late 2000 for the western Release. A earlier NTSC/Pal release could have helped the game and the DC itself a lot. The game was unique at this point. The Ps2 had nothing comparable at this point.
 
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