What have we learned so far...?

24Nathan

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:13 pm
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
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US
So, this is piggybacking off of my last thread here, based on what we have learned from the games: https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/i...have-we-learned-in-shenmue-i-ii-and-iii.2566/

Although this time, I thought I'd take a stab at migrating some old information into the spotlight. Almost everything, if not everything in this thread comes from other people. I am simply combining it into one place, like the old Dojo used to have in the "Shenmue III Preview". I will try my best to credit who and where I got this stuff from. If I have made a mistake, please let me know and I will add that information in. Here goes...

Possible Cut Content
I say "possible" because we still don't exactly what will perhaps be used for a Shenmue IV. Yu Suzuki has stated that in Shenmue III, players would learn the meaning of the prophecy poem, as well as Ryo and Shenhua's roles in said prophecy. He also said that Shenmue III would have "four main bosses", two of which we assume to be Lan Di and Niao Sun. We also know that this does not include Ge or Yanlang [6]. One of the bosses was described as "a strategist that uses more cunning than head on fighting". Further adaptations of the QTE system were also being experimented with, including having the player respond to different colors, sounds, or Chinese characters [3]. All moves from Shenmue I & II minus throws were said to be included, however, there are some that did not make a return [7]. Yu Suzuki originally tried to include snail races in the game [7]. The "Character Perspective System" was supposed to "highlight different characters' personalities as they go through the story" [8]. Further regarding this system [9]:

Shenmue Dojo/Team Yu said:
Something we know will be in Shenmue III is the Character Perspective system, a new feature unlocked for development as a crowdfunding stretch goal. With the player able to take control of Ryo's allies for the first time, we were interested to learn how different an experience it would be to play as Ren or Shenhua. For example, would the leader of a Hong Kong street gang employ a different fighting style to the lead protagonist so far?

Suzuki confirmed that Ren's style of combat will differ from Ryo's, and that Shenhua doesn't fight. "She's smart and uses other tactics," he noted, before explaining that "the Character Perspective system is not a system that simply changes your character. It simulates each person's personality, and the way they think and behave."

Ryo was originally supposed to visit the Great Wall and have a fight with Ge there:

Seeing as how we visit a location similar to this in the Shenmue III ending, it is unclear if this is the same wall that contains the cliff temple or one of a few walls within China.

22291236_354377555015513_5018436033413833212_o.jpg

Untitled.png

Snow weather can be found in the game's files, which leads us to our next two topics:


Baisha Village
Baisha translates to "White Sand", presumably snow, and was originally going to be one of the three main locations in Shenmue III:

The Character Perspective System was to be included here. Baisha was to show "what Shenmue III is all about". Players were to "Live out a siege game reminiscent of the Warring Kingdoms. See which strategist will come out on top". Baisha was to include tulous, which Yu Suzuki had visited during Shenmue III's development:

A few early development screenshots also were taken inside these tulou, showing Ryo fighting Chi You Men members: [11]
Ryo can be seen running up to a tulou in an early clip of development contained within a trailer for the upcoming Shenmue documentary:

In the first Shenmue III development report, a scene is being worked on that consists of characters jumping down a rocky cliff, dodging falling rocks and boulders [12].

A loading screen for Baisha was curiously found in the What's Shenmue files by LanDC:
Baisha.jpg

Lastly, in a Kickstarter update clarifying stretch goals, it was stated that that Baisha was changed into the Old Castle area, and that the Character Perspective System could not be implemented in this game [14].

Niao Sun
Niao Sun, also known as Chonghua, Entei, TyoJun, is a "deadly siren of the Chi You Men" [13]. She is said to be a ruthless practitioner of Mantis Dagger Fist style [10]. Seen in many promotional items and material even before Shenmue I was released, the most information we gather from her has been in two character descriptions. One, from the Shenmue Premiere:

It states: "One of "the Four Leaders" of Chi You Men, in charge of the south. She wears a voluptuous red dress, and her manner seduces people. Her fearful eyes that pierce everything are always seeking chases. She takes pleasure in cruel actions and eliminates people just like bugs ." [15]

The other comes from SEGA's official Shenmue III website in Japan. It reads: "One of the leaders of the shadowy Chi You Men criminal organization. Belying her captivating beauty, she is an expert martial arts practitioner. However, her greatest talent is said to lie in the area of plotting and strategy, and she makes use of her cunning wits to play dirty tricks. 'Niao Sun' is merely her nickname inside the organization, a reference to one of the Four Heavenly Beasts - the Vermilion Bird*. However regarding such details as her real name, background, and why she joined the Chi You Men, nothing at all is known." [16][17]

Yu Suzuki says the following:

"In Shenmue, there are four big bosses. The east, west, north, and south...each one of these four bosses protects one of the four cardinal points. And the one who protects the South is Niao Sun. The color that characterizes her is red, and the animal that represents her is the phoenix. She is very scary, and a cruel type of boss. "

A partial model was found by LanDC in the files of What's Shenmue:

Chjhands.jpg

Locations/Chapters/Concept Chapter Artwork
Shenmue III takes us roughly 40% through the story [24], and encompasses parts of chapters three to six [25].

In an interview with AM2 member Shin Ishikawa, he highlights that the Shenmue saga consists of 16 chapters:

am2_4.jpg

It is unknown why this differs from Yu Suzuki's claims of 11 chapters.

Shenmue was originally written with 11 chapters, and Yu Suzuki originally envisioned four to five games in the series, and would still like to realize this goal if possible [8].

As hinted at by the tapestry in Shenhua's house in Shenmue II, Luoyang seems to be an important future Shenmue location:


@BlueMue, who provided the video of the snow in Shenmue III listed above, also recorded many of the dialogue choices Ryo has with Shenhua in Shenmue III. In one of these, she mentions to Ryo that she has "vivid dreams of the place where the emperor used to live":


Found by LanDC, the Shenmue Premiere video seems to showcase locations within Luoyang [18]. The full video is linked below, and here are some pictures that seem to indicate this, as the originals in the thread are long gone:


Similarly, the Shaolin Monastery, located within the Henan Province of China (same as Luoyang) looks to be visited in the Project Berkeley video which came on a bonus disc with the Japanese release of Virtua Fighter 3TB on Dreamcast:


Shaolin-Temple-3.jpg

Untitled.png

Notice the similar circular windows along the buildings. Although dark, the building that the thugs and Shenhua stand in front of is clearly the Mountain Gate of the Shaolin Monastery.

Some material from the cancelled Shenmue Online gives us a glimpse on possible future locations. First, we have a map from Shenmue.com around the time Shenmue Online was announced in 2004:

Untitled.png

We see both Xian and Suzhou as new locations in China, as well as Seoul and Busan in South Korea. Whether or not the Korean locations were planned specifically for Shenmue Online is anyone's guess, as they have never been showcased outside of this image in any Shenmue material in any form.

As for Xian and Suzhou, in a short behind the scenes video of Shenmue Online, there is a map of China that the camera shows for a few seconds:


Chapter Locations From Shenmue Online Concept Art Video.png

As discussed here [26], the thread seems to point that the chapter locations are the following:

1 - Yokosuka
2 - Genpu Maru, the boat from Japan to China
3 - Hong Kong
4 - Kowloon
5 - Li River
6 - Bailu Village

The map also highlights Suzhou, Luoyang, Meng Cun, and Beijing.

At both Game Developers Conference 2014 to give a Shenmue Postmortem presentation, and a Shenmue III press event, Yu Suzuki included two slides in his presentation that included a map indicating past and future locations of the Shenmue series, and concept art tiles that go with certain locations on the map, as discussed in this topic: [19]. The topic author attended the CHUAPP 2015 press event for Shenmue III in Shanghai, China:


His theory is that the chapters are as follows:
1 - Yokosuka
2 - Hong Kong
3 & 4 - Suzhou and Shanghai, unsure of which comes first.
5 & 6 - Guilin.
7 - Luoyang
8 - Cangzhou Miao Village
9 - Xian
10 - Beijing
11 - Lan Lou (Xinjiang)

He states that the Suzhou and Shanghai chapters were cut, and that during a dinner with Yu Suzuki (unclear why he was at dinner with Yu Suzuki), that Shenmue III encompasses chapters five and six, which was actually confirmed later on, although slightly expanded with bits and pieces of three and four [25]. Lastly, he mentions that Yu Suzuki said he will be visiting Suzhou, Wuxi, and Xiamen. Maybe we will be visiting these locations in the future?

The chapter and location discussion is further complicated by this sidestory comic in Shenmue II that highlights the boat trip to Hong Kong, where Chai attacks Ryo again [27]. In an interview In a September 7th, 2001 issue of Dorimaga, Yu Suzuki and Masaya Matsukaze confirm that the boat content was shot, but ultimately cut [28]. This is indicative of more scenes were cut, highlighted in the aforementioned thread, and in particular, a lengthy journey between Kowloon and Guilin.

Then there is this picture:

43201621_1905396543088796_8219121907530727424_n.png

1 - Yokosuka
2 - Hong Kong
3 - Suzhou
4 - Guilin
5 - Baisha

We also have these pictures of Akira from the Virtua Fighter CG Portrait Series, originally released in 1995:

2.png

The picture depicts Akira in front of a sign for Cang Zhou, which houses the town of Mengcun, where Lan Di claims that Iwao murdered his father. Mengcun is also considered the birthplace of Bajiquan.

5.png

We also have this picture of Lau, from his own Virtua Fighter Portrait Series, in front of the Longmen Grottoes of Luoyang:

Lau Luoyang.png

Mysterious Poetry Scroll
In Shenmue I, Ryo finds a "Mysterious Scroll" behind the Yin & Yang banner in the Hazuki Dojo. Guizhang helps translates it (turning into the "Poetry Scroll), and says that Ryo should hold onto it, because someday he may meet the master who wrote it:


"O, fierce tiger, thou art ruler of the forest, the bravest of character. As tranquil as the most majestic of mountains, as swift as a bolt of lightning. As violent as an earthquake, jolting the great Earth. Show no mercy. With twin fangs strike, and rush up Moon Mountain. Striking fear in all, nary a soul challenge thee."

Guizhang goes on to say that the scroll is written in secret poetry form, and only those who have received direct instruction from the master can understand its meaning.

According to Kiyuu, this move is Akira's "Mouko Kouhazan", as shown here [20] [23]:


21383MoukoKouhazan.jpg

This move (a fierce tiger climbs a mountain), along with Demon's Triangle (the king of Hell waves his hand three times), is one of the Badazhao of Bajiquan [22].

Music
In the files of What's Shenmue, Shenmue I, Shenmue II, and Shenmue III lies over forty unused music tracks. While these could easily have been alternate music choices for current scenes, or music leftover from cut content from these games (or from upcoming DLC in Shenmue Online's case), some of them may even be for events and locations beyond that of Shenmue III. In a Kickstarter interview for Shenmue III, composer Ryuji Iuchi says that he composed over 100 songs himself, and between Shenmue I & II combined, there were over 800 songs composed by the music team, meaning some have still not been used yet:


You can listen to most of them here:


And here:


Old Press/Promotional Material

Tiger Swallow Style



-----

Whew. For now, that's it. I'll post in the thread if I update this post.

Sources
[1] https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/i...have-we-learned-in-shenmue-i-ii-and-iii.2566/
[2] https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/i...he-facts-and-information-as-of-20-03-2019.41/
[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20071115234003/http://shenmue.planets.gamespy.com/shenmue3_preview.shtml
[4]
[5] http://www.gameblog.fr/interview_1100_yu-suzuki-je-ne-suis-pas-encore-satisfait-du-design-actuel-m
[6] https://www.phantomriverstone.com/2018/03/yu-suzukis-magic-conference-in-english.html
[7]
[8]
[9] https://shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=49948
[10] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48828#p1111832
[11] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/posts/1398446
[12] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/posts/1668801
[13] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/description
[14] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/posts/2553891
[15] https://web.archive.org/web/20071115234003/http://shenmue.planets.gamespy.com/shenmue3_preview.shtml
[16] https://third.shenmue.com/
[17] https://www.phantomriverstone.com/2019/10/niao-sun-shrine-maiden-character.html
[18] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4341
[19] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49361
[20] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15176&start=30#p374280
[21] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15176&start=45#p378467
[22] https://books.google.com/books?id=dkPTM3IzeawC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=badazhao+bajiquan&source=bl&ots=PvtaskqAWd&sig=ACfU3U1NtxcmyJS-J1xakaPTt_AIZdFcpA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi9pOKk3P_mAhWLK80KHZbPAl0Q6AEwCXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=badazhao bajiquan&f=false
[23] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=563058#p563058
[24] https://www.pcgamer.com/shenmue-3-wont-complete-ryos-story/
[25] https://www.gameinformer.com/preview/2019/07/07/all-the-ways-i-killed-time
[26] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43957&hilit=future+locations
[27] https://www.shenmuedojo.com/media/shenmue-official-side-story/
[28] https://www.shenmuedojo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12943
 

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Characters
Before talking about characters who might appear, first we should mention those that are guaranteed to appear.

Ryo Hazuki

ryo.jpg


As Ryo is the main protagonist of the story, this a no brainer.

Shenhua Ling

ART3.jpg


Like Ryo, Shenhua is the main heroine of the story, and is on the journey to the cliff temple at the end of Shenmue III.

Ren Wuying

no7 (2).jpg


Joining Ryo and Shenhua at the end of Shenmue III journeying to the cliff temple, Ren is also a character that will appear in the future.

Lan Di
yuanhua_04.jpg


Main antagonist, at least for now. Last seen wishing the "Phoenix Mirror" hadn't just been thrown out the window of the Old Castle in Niaowu, as Niao Sun attempted to kill him with fire. Wants the Phoenix Mirror to pair with the Dragon Mirror likely still in his possession for unknown reasons.

Niao Sun
Niao Sun 4.jpg


Last seen literally fueling the fire that she hoped would kill Lan Di after obtaining the Phoenix Mirror. Likely hoping to obtain the Dragon Mirror in Lan Di's possession for unknown reasons.

Tentei
Only mentioned in Japanese guides and obscure interviews as the leader of the Chiyoumen, above both Niao Sun and Lan Di. Ordered Lan Di to obtain the Dragon Mirror from Iwao Hazuki.

Baihu

Originally appearing in Shenmue II, Baihu is the only person known to be alive that also practices the Tiger Swallow Style martial art.

Chiyoumen
 
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Much respect for the depth on this...

Plenty to read. So much that I wanna see realised with either a full sequel or DLC.

Just so much dreaming here.

I don't know why but I feel a sense of tragedy browsing through this... Not sure if it's because i am feeling negative at the time of writing this post.

Could any of the content here ever see light of day in S4 or DLC?
 
nice post.
while we never reached those goals during the kickstarter, initially Yu Suzuki planned also the high ground battle system (unever terrain like VF3?) and the "Magic Maze" for Bailu.
 
Yes. I will link the original thread when I can
Yeah, I would love to see it.

There was a picture going around on another thread showing the chapter scripts with chapter 5 being Baisha.
img_8356.jpg


This contradicts the tiles for the VFRPG which Shenmue seems to be loosely following. Since Baisha was included so early on I'm wondering how many changes to the story there have been. Was Baisha always supposed to be its own chapter location or just a part of something else? Something to think about I guess.
 
Music updated, locations updated, mysterious scroll updated, post formatting updated, slight edits made.
 
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Yeah, I would love to see it.

There was a picture going around on another thread showing the chapter scripts with chapter 5 being Baisha.
img_8356.jpg


This contradicts the tiles for the VFRPG which Shenmue seems to be loosely following. Since Baisha was included so early on I'm wondering how many changes to the story there have been. Was Baisha always supposed to be its own chapter location or just a part of something else? Something to think about I guess.
Interesting to see the picture, yes chapter 5 says Baisha.

I can also see that the third chapter was supposed to be Suzhou, before Guilin...
 
Interesting to see the picture, yes chapter 5 says Baisha.

I can also see that the third chapter was supposed to be Suzhou, before Guilin...
Yes, and in the VFRPG tiles Suzhou was supposed to be Chapter 4 and Guilin Chapter 5. Maybe what happened is during Shenmue 1 development they made a decision to cut the train chapter and that moved some of the chapters up by one. Then Baisha was added or split from another chapter to be Chapter 5. This is all speculation though, and since then the whole chapter thing has changed so much it's almost moot.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for bringing all this information together. Be great if it will foster some discussions. I also can’t help but feel a little sad, how many of the elements discussed prior to Shenmue 3’s release never got realized.

@24Nathan are you intending on updating remaining sections?
 
Yes, thank you for posting! I'm a bit stunned more people aren't discussing stuff like this, because it is still the future of the series. I don't think much of this has been cut, if any. It just may not have been progressed much in Shenmue III, as much as some would have liked, included me.
 
I'm a bit stunned more people aren't discussing stuff like this, because it is still the future of the series. I don't think much of this has been cut, if any. It just may not have been progressed much in Shenmue III, as much as some would have liked, included me.

As an interesting exercise I was reading through old threads, prior to the release to get a gauge of what most of us were expecting or hoping would be covered in Shenmue 3. I think in some ways we are licking our wounds from elements confirmed in prerelease interviews that never came to fruition.

I said this shortly after I completed the game that if there’s a silver lining, despite lack of story development there really hasn’t been extensive retconning or established characters being butchered. So there’s possibilities like you said of these elements being covered.

The question I have is can you do this up in a satisfying way, with so much of the story still to tell in potentially one or in a dream scenario two games?
 
I can't remember which interview it was off the top of my head, but the last we heard, Yu - san said he would prefer to end things in Shenmue V. If we are 40% through the story, there's still a ton left.
 
I can't remember which interview it was off the top of my head, but the last we heard, Yu - san said he would prefer to end things in Shenmue V. If we are 40% through the story, there's still a ton left.

I’m quietly optimistic we will get a forth game but maybe I’m being overly pessimistic, but I don’t see a fifth game are this juncture. I hope I am wrong.

Unrelated but taking about you things we’ve learned so far, a few symbols and elements went over my head before watching this good analysis video-

 
Awesome thread! The only two things I would amend are:

I). SEGA's capsule toys were not used due to licensing fees.
II). The Shenmue story will end with Shenmue V.

Found from this interview by Cedric Biscay on Facebook.

 
Awesome thread! The only two things I would amend are:

I). SEGA's capsule toys were not used due to licensing fees.
II). The Shenmue story will end with Shenmue V.

Found from this interview by Cedric Biscay on Facebook.

Yes, the capsule toys part is accurate, however, the feelings he gives about ending with Shenmue V are just that, his feelings. I won't update this, as the idea of potentially ending things in Shenmue IV has been mentioned, although not ideal.
 
I don't think we will get any announcements until May or June. Maybe sometime around the next quarter or whatever the fiscal year is in Monaco
 
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