SEGA DREAMCAST

RyoHazuki84

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The funny thing was that Japan was still getting DC games until 2007 while other territories were discontinued from 2001 or 2002. As much as Saturn fans will hate me for saying this, but I think firing Stolar was a big mistake. He was the one who pushed for Dreamcast. For all the shit he gets for Saturn, he came into Sega when Saturn was at its worst, and Sony and Nintendo were going neck and neck. It wasn't his fault that it had a rush launch at $400, and that it was difficult to program for (apparently, this was the case of mostly non-Japanese developers because they weren't provided any guides on how to work with the Saturn as a result of the rushed launch). Saturn's rushed launch fucked up Sega's relationships with retailers, which also carried over to the DC days, and that happened before Stolar. In context to Sega in the US, I hate to agree that Saturn wasn't their future in that sense. When you strike out, there's always the next inning, and that's what Stolar did, but tragically he still lost the game.

I think if Sega kept Stolar around, he probably would've kept DC alive until 2003 or 2004, and he sure as hell would have never canceled Shenmue II's North American release at the last minute.

As stated before, an accumulation of Sega's failures was what brought them down.
 
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Yes seeing Stolar as the ultimate scapegoat for the failures of Sega is mistake. The same goes for Nakayama.

I posted the link already in the Saturn thread


but the forum posts from Grayson on Sega 16 give a valuable insight about Stolar.

The mainstream narrative did not get many things right as asual.
 

Sput Vas Normandy

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Idk mate, I'm kinda a novice in terms of Sega's history and I learn a lot of you guys.
But I'm just saying, Stolar coming from SIE... I mean come on. COME FUCKING ON. We have a say here. "If you want it even more clear, just put some water on it..." This shaddy stuff really happens.
 
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Seaman

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We have a say here. "If you want it even more clear, just put some water on it..."
They... Also have the same saying, I believe clear as crystal is old as mustard grains. Moreover, we probably copied it.

Now about Stolar, regarding his role at Sega with DC I only remember an exciting like never console launch. The PS2 hype was higher but Sega did their home works at that after Saturn fiasco.
Imo he is not suspect of Sony's trojan horse. In reality also, many people working in Sony and N, loved Sega. Ironically, Sega was always regarded as fresh and easy to work with. So its very possible to swap from Nintendo to Sega without any prob
Or they kidnap your dearest, because working for Nintendo, it depends on the mood of the day.
 

RyoHazuki84

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I still feel Sega firing Stolar was one of the big mistakes as to why DC prematurely ended in 2002 in North America. I'm sure Stolar would've found a way to keep it going for just a bit longer. I will admit Sega going third party was likely inevitable, but the Dreamcast still had so much life in it to the point that Japan was still officially getting gets until 2007. But thanks to Dreamcast being an easy platform to develop for (amongst other things such as how Dreamcast is compatible with may modern development software), the homebrew and the independent scene is making it the Tupac of video games.
 

Sput Vas Normandy

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I heard Stoaler was fired because he sold the DC $50 cheaper than Sega of Japan wanted to. It's been reported that Sega loss alot of money on hardware sells.
Well thats 450 millions of loss (obv, easy math, you should calculate too the fact that if the console was 50usd more expensive then less people would buy it, but still, at top 450 millions. And yeaah i know you have to calculate different stuff too like distribution physic sales and so on, we're just playing).

Would that save Sega?
 

RyoHazuki84

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Kalinske also sold the Genesis at cost as well.

But both of them were pretty much selling Starbucks coffee at cost more or less.
 

BruceWayne911

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Well thats 450 millions of loss (obv, easy math, you should calculate too the fact that if the console was 50usd more expensive then less people would buy it, but still, at top 450 millions. And yeaah i know you have to calculate different stuff too like distribution physic sales and so on, we're just playing).

Would that save Sega?

I dont think it would save Sega but it was a contributing element toward Sega downfall. Sega demise isn't just a few things its alot things that went wrong for Team Blue. IMO piracy was a major culprit. If you give consumers the means to copy and paste games for your hardware you basically have no software profitability.
 
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I still feel Sega firing Stolar was one of the big mistakes as to why DC prematurely ended in 2002 in North America. I'm sure Stolar would've found a way to keep it going for just a bit longer. I will admit Sega going third party was likely inevitable, but the Dreamcast still had so much life in it to the point that Japan was still officially getting gets until 2007. But thanks to Dreamcast being an easy platform to develop for (amongst other things such as how Dreamcast is compatible with may modern development software), the homebrew and the independent scene is making it the Tupac of video games.

I think so too. The demise of the DC was inevitable I am afraid but killing it of that early was a mistake. The Ps2 just lived from the hype at that point and could not beat the DC technically yet and the GC and the Xbox were not around as well.
The DC could have had so many great games to keep the console alive for a much longer time.

Due the similar architecture of pcs the DC could have been the console for PC ports. Many titles like Max Payne, Heavy Metal Fakk 2 and others were planned for the DC but have never been released. The Half Life Port was ready but was not sold yet.

Back then a console that could play PC games would be much win for the people that could not afford a high powered Pc.

@Sput Vas Normandy It pains me the say that but I think Sega was beyond saving around the time of DC.

Sega was running out of money really fast but the worst thing was that it lost the trust of consumers and publishers. Many publisher did not consider the DC worth supporting due the bad experience they had with Sega in the past.
The public opinion and the opinion of the retailers is what keeps a console alive or not.

The add ons are the main culprits to kill Sega and the bad performance of the Saturn in the west.
 
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Seaman

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Just leaving this here for givin credits to Nintendo and also a different perspective on Sega ill fated destiny, now that most of us know about retailers being annoyed with so many short lived, failed Sega products.
Training for customer service:
 

RyoHazuki84

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I dont think it would save Sega but it was a contributing element toward Sega downfall. Sega demise isn't just a few things its alot things that went wrong for Team Blue. IMO piracy was a major culprit. If you give consumers the means to copy and paste games for your hardware you basically have no software profitability.
I think piracy was already discovered near the time it was discontinued. And it's not like PS1 and PS2 were immune to piracy either. And the funny thing is, piracy is kind of what is now keeping the DC alive as a homebrew system
 

Sput Vas Normandy

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Just leaving this here for givin credits to Nintendo and also a different perspective on Sega ill fated destiny, now that most of us know about retailers being annoyed with so many short lived, failed Sega products.
Training for customer service:
Wow, Idk why but I just loved this video lol. It's so nice.
 

Seaman

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I think piracy was already discovered near the time it was discontinued. And it's not like PS1 and PS2 were immune to piracy either. And the funny thing is, piracy is kind of what is now keeping the DC alive as a homebrew system
It really was that much as "DC piracy protection cracked, system done".
The moment couldn't be worst, the console and with it the whole company were hanging on a cliff.
To put in perspective:
PSX) you needed a modchip soldering to the console circuits, or a cheat device with some spring or match for locking the CD lid sensor. Cost 20$-80$ iirc. Hardmod meant lost your warranty.

PS2) Same as PS1 with increased difficult for the soft mod method (it involved opening the disc tray with a custom diy plastic lock pick similar to breaking a house door, very nuts). 80$ for modchip and probably a brick with that crazy "soft"mod.

DC) It was just... A boot CD and the machine was CD-r compatible. No more protection. Empty spaces, what are we living for, abandoned places...
The Boot CD was later just patched into the "backups" so they were now bootable without any extra. And because you didnt required to mod the console, you had your warranty intact.
 
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Are you guys familiar with the Dreamcast version of Soul Reaver? am thinking of adding the game to my collection. I wanted to play it again yesterday but could not find my PlayStation copy anymore. Might have gotten lost during moving house many years ago. :(

I can remember that magazine reviews back then were quite positive so it might be a worthwhile addition to my collecting and experiencing a better version of the game on my Dc is also very nice.
 

Seaman

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Are you guys familiar with the Dreamcast version of Soul Reaver? am thinking of adding the game to my collection. I wanted to play it again yesterday but could not find my PlayStation copy anymore. Might have gotten lost during moving house many years ago. :(

I can remember that magazine reviews back then were quite positive so it might be a worthwhile addition to my collecting and experiencing a better version of the game on my Dc is also very nice.
Wasn't a WinCE based game?
I remember similar feeling to Nightmares Creatures 2 port, "better textures" (filtered) and maybe better framerate.

I hope you find your psx versión though.
 

Truck_1_0_1_

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Not WinCE, but an absolutely great game; I 100% reviewed it, but I can't find it on gfaqs, it appears to have disappeared... I need to get my site's backup files loaded, 'cause it may be in there.

So weird.

Anyways, yes, great game, significantly better than the PSX version. Really bummed the second game was cancelled :(
 
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@Truck_1_0_1_ Same here. I was interested in Soul Reaver 2 for the DC when it got announced at the E3 2000. Wasn't happy about the news that the game was canceled for DC. Soul Reaver 2 was just one of many DC games that were canceled just for business and not for technical reasons.

@Seaman Thanks. But I think my original Ps1 copy is lost for good but I found out that I still have the game. Was checking my PSP yesterday after some years and I found out that I have the digital copy of the game as well. Because the game is still installed on my psp.

I will still get the dc version if I can find it at good price to beat it again on the DC. The youtube footage really looks impressing.

I also did not know that Nightmare Creatures 2 got DC release as well. That's interesting. I just know the PS1 version of the game. I like Nightmare Creatures 2 by the way. The ps1 version is solid 7/10 game. Not am masterpiece but solid Hack and Slay game. Nightmare creatures 2 is way better than the first game.
 

Seaman

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@Truck_1_0_1_ Same here. I was interested in Soul Reaver 2 for the DC when it got announced at the E3 2000. Wasn't happy about the news that the game was canceled for DC. Soul Reaver 2 was just one of many DC games that were canceled just for business and not for technical reasons.

@Seaman Thanks. But I think my original Ps1 copy is lost for good but I found out that I still have the game. Was checking my PSP yesterday after some years and I found out that I have the digital copy of the game as well. Because the game is still installed on my psp.

I will still get the dc version if I can find it at good price to beat it again on the DC. The youtube footage really looks impressing.

I also did not know that Nightmare Creatures 2 got DC release as well. That's interesting. I just know the PS1 version of the game. I like Nightmare Creatures 2 by the way. The ps1 version is solid 7/10 game. Not am masterpiece but solid Hack and Slay game. Nightmare creatures 2 is way better than the first game.
Soulreaver 2 was cancelled because what you said. The machine was capable of fair good ports like Quake3, Unreal Tournament, Half Life.. DC ended it days way before of unleashing its full power due to devs familiarity with the system.
Nightmare Creatures 1 was a one hit knockout to me, previous game gear owner, with those 3D victorian London streets and Nadia model. Then appeared a zombie and a werewolf.. It was my Demo1.
Personally I like it more than NC2 in gameplay, but not dismissing the sequel with its strong dark metal videoclip visuals. I saw very unfair reviews to NC2, using today standards. Its a bit flawed, ok but one can not deny its bravery and powerful imagery. And the honesty present at that era games, is also in NC.
The DC port was ok, better looking, but I recall disc read errors not present before (maybe my disc was damaged).
 
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