Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Guppy said:
I seriously got no clue why people are persistent on wanting to turn Shenmue into a Yakuza game. Just play the damn Yakuza games instead. Even Sega was smart enough to differentiate its Yakuza spin-off, Lost Judgement, from the mainline titles by shifting one of them into a full-blown JRPG. Imagine if these people got what they wished for: Sega would now have 3 IPs that play exactly like each other, just under different names. How fun and exciting would that be, huh?
Wouldn't it be much easier to just watch the Shenmue anime in its entirety when it comes out for the story, then mod a Ryo model into one of the Yakuza games of their liking to have your fill game wise and be done with this nonsense?
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Drives me bonkers. Due to the setting, character focus, and general JRPG DNA, there's huge overlap between Yakuza fans and anime JRPG fans, which means they can be annoying as **** :p 🤫

Don't get me wrong, I love me some anime, but you cannot deny the average Persona (Tales, Atelier, whatever etc.) fan getting about the internet have a special kind of obsession, and a key part of that obsession is just wanting the same shit served up over and over.

Yes, Shenmue fans can also come across as obsessed -- that's fandom for ya -- but I think there's a difference in the core make-up of the Shenmue community, because of how long ago the game came out, the type of game it is (and isn't), what it represented at the time...and most importantly, not getting a game in the series for 18 years! The sheer injustice made fanatics of us all.

Yakuza, on the other hand, has seen dozens of sequels and spin-offs, all set in the same places, and all play very very similarly...and yet, the fans still want other games to be more like Yakuza. I bet 90% of them haven't even finished half the existing Yakuza games the greedy little piggies.
 
I just want to make one more post about this subject, about why i think it is so unfair what happened with Yu Suzuki, about why i really don't understand the game industry right now because of this things.

I'm creating a story, i imagine my story as games with a Shenmue vibe but i don't have a team with me so i decided to write books, i'm writing the first book and i like writing, maybe later i will think about the story in game format.

My story is inspired by Shenmue with a lot of chapters, slow pace, calm and peaceful moments, martial arts, asian culture, the character will travel to other countries, the story will be a journey and much more, for this story is my style doing this way, a slow pace story, do i want to turn my book into a 100% action story? no, i'm doing a slow pace story.

It is wrong doing like this? no, it is just a different style, some people will enjoy my story and other people will probably think that this story is boring but there is nothing wrong in doing a story the way i'm doing, is just a different style and artists have different styles and this is good in my opinion for books, movies, games and much more.

For example Shigeru Miyamoto, Yu Suzuki, Hideo Kojima, Toshihiro Nagoshi and Fumito Ueda, 5 people that have different styles in the game industry and this is beautiful, diversity is good for the game industry, i don't want to see all the games series to look like GTA for example, i like GTA but i don't want to see the game industry become something that all the games series will be the same thing, i don't want that for the game industry, diversity is the way to go in my opinion.

Why i told this about my project? i told this because this is what is happening with Yu Suzuki. Yu Suzuki made a story with such a different style and pace, this game series don't have violence/fights all the time, the story is not fast all the time and much more.

Yu Suzuki wrote a 11 chapter story, one time he even said this...

Yu Suzuki: As you know, I wrote an 11-chapter story as Shenmue's original story. This is a base of the story, obviously. If I make it, we'd need 11 games - and that's not going to happen! Shenmue 1 was chapter 1. Shenmue 2... around 80 percent came from chapter 2. The remaining 20 percent was sliced from chapter 4, 5 and 6 - pieces of it. And in the case of chapter 3, that was actually totally removed.

"If I make it, we'd need 11 games"

So if i understood this right at one point he was so ambitious with this project that his vision really was 11 games, one chapter per game. Some things changed and that's okay, it is what it is but this just shows to me what Yu Suzuki really want for this story in my opinion.

This is one of the reasons why Shenmue Chapter 1: Yokosuka is a slow pace game with a lot of details in my opinion, because at one point Yu Suzuki really thought about 11 games, in the Saturn version i think Yu Suzuki was not thinking like this, he even wanted to make Yokosuka chapter smaller but when he started to work in the Dreamcast version i think he became super ambitious with this project and even thought about 11 games.

Bailu Village in Shenmue III have a similar vibe and style, Shenmue have this ZEN vibe and style, and this vibe and style is what i think is Yu Suzuki vision for the story, Yu Suzuki don't want Ryo with weapons like we see in other games, nothing like that, for Ryo is only his fists, it is wrong doing Ryo like this? of course not, it is Yu Suzuki style doing this way and i love that it is this way.

Shenmue have a different vibe, style, pace, gameplay and much more and that's okay, nothing wrong with doing games like this in recent days. Nothing wrong with Yu Suzuki wanting to create a closed but very deep world like he said in one interview.

For Shenmue III Yu Suzuki did a slow pace game with similar things with the first game, for Shenmue IV i don't know all the things he wants to do but i just hope that he continues to do what he feels is the right thing for his story/game series.

i create stories as well so i have 100% empathy and respect for what Yu Suzuki really want to do in relation to his story and games, i'm not saying i will like everything, all i'm saying is that i have empathy and respect for this and that i hope he continues to do Shenmue in his pace and style.
 
Neo-Yakuza fans don't want Shenmue to become like Yakuza, they are convinced Shenmue is ALREADY like Yakuza, but worse. That's the problem.

So you will see them in comment threads parroting this claim because their favorite "influencer" told them, like Jim Sterling, not because they played Shenmue and came to that conclusion.

If they actually knew Shenmue is completely different, they would be far more interested in it, but their image of Shenmue is that it's an outdated prototype for Yakuza.

Which is funny since the very few aspects where we can 'objectively' compare the two, Shenmue is far more advanced than even the latest Yakuza entry. i'm talking non-subjective elements like interactivity with the world, NPCs, dynamic time of day/weather, etc... Yakuza isn't even in the same league.
 
Rikitatsu said:
Neo-Yakuza fans don't want Shenmue to become like Yakuza, they are convinced Shenmue is ALREADY like Yakuza, but worse. That's the problem.
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I agree, that is a huge part of the problem. There is definitely a contingent that have seen Shenmue for themselves, maybe even played it, and perceive its slow, investigative nature as "outdated" and something that Yakuza has subsequently "fixed".

I think it's a combination: them not valuing the differences, and them just wanting it to be more like Yakuza because that's what they like and expect.
 
Yakuza fans no disrespect to that fanbase far from it need to realise that shenmue is the original and infact paved the way for that franchise. That's fact and no matter how they try to make it seem like a different story the answer will never change. I like yakuza and I also dig judgement I don't hate on either titles but and I don't know if people will agree with me on this statement but I only feel a little bitter/upset when I play them because the success that they had should of been what shenmue received long before they came to fruition. If yu decides to use certain elements from them I'm all for it but don't go overboard crazy...it's mainly about finding a new healthy balance for the series going forward enough to grab new players interest but also a little love to keep us old school fans on board. If anyone can find that balance and who's a real perfectionist I'm sure its yu. We just got to have some god damn faith! 😂 all jokes aside I'll support the series and yu throughout no matter what he decides to do my curiosity is at peak that his playing "games" I wondered what his been introduced to? Or what notes his taking as we speak/type?
 
Rikitatsu said:
Shenmue is in a unique position where it is a well known name, but no many people actually play it.
Which makes it perfect for these kinds of shitty articles because the Author knows he can make shit up and it will get clicks and no push back whatsoever

I personally try to call out these Yakuza comparisons when I can, but for sites like Resetera where I don't have an account, I have no choice but to shake my head from the sidelines

It'd be great if someone with a large platform can call out these lazy, factually untrue comparisons
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One of their precious AAA games called "Cyberpunk" bombed.

Sorry, I don't need Keanu Reeves' acting expertise and a bloated budget to make a great gaming experience for me. Maybe the zoomers need that fix, but I played games since 1987, lol. "Waaaaah, 2D graphics and password systems!"

I act mature compared to these so called professional critics online.

Shenmue 3 wasn't Hollywood, and that's enough for me.

Sorry, drinking again tonight. It's still the holidays.
 
Rikitatsu said:
Shenmue is in a unique position where it is a well known name, but no many people actually play it.
Which makes it perfect for these kinds of shitty articles because the Author knows he can make shit up and it will get clicks and no push back whatsoever

I personally try to call out these Yakuza comparisons when I can, but for sites like Resetera where I don't have an account, I have no choice but to shake my head from the sidelines

It'd be great if someone with a large platform can call out these lazy, factually untrue comparisons
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“Outrun sucks” is an active thread on Resetera. Now, 95% of the thread is backlash against the OP, but just remember the type of forum we’re talking about. I don’t get the internets obsession with proving Sega never released good games tho. Brought that up in the same thread.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
“Outrun sucks” is an active thread on Resetera. Now, 95% of the thread is backlash against the OP, but just remember the type of forum we’re talking about. I don’t get the internets obsession with proving Sega never released good games tho. Brought that up in the same thread.
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Well, I don't mind people saying "X game sucks" as that's down to personal opinion.. But easily debunked shit like "Shenmue is proto-Yakuza" just makes my blood boil, especially as how widespread it has become in the discourse around Shenmue.

Sorta related, but I'm not surprised that a lot of people don't like Outrun, because the vast majority played the console version... Arcade Outrun is a different beast entirely... You could say the same to all of Suzuki's Arcade games, too... The reason why he's not put on the same pedestal as Miyamoto is because most people played the inferior versions of his games, especially younger generations. The man does not get the respect he truly deserves.
 
Rikitatsu said:
Well, I don't mind people saying "X game sucks" as that's down to personal opinion.. But easily debunked shit like "Shenmue is proto-Yakuza" just makes my blood boil, especially as how widespread it has become in the discourse around Shenmue.

Sorta related, but I'm not surprised that a lot of people don't like Outrun, because the vast majority played the console version... Arcade Outrun is a different beast entirely... You could say the same to all of Suzuki's Arcade games, too... The reason why he's not put on the same pedestal as Miyamoto is because most people played the inferior versions of his games, especially younger generations. The man does not get the respect he truly deserves.
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I don’t mind opinions, but that opinion is like saying “the Mona Lisa isn’t that great” or “Citizen Kane is trash.” It’s pointless and doesn’t consider history. I won’t say “Outrun is great” is an objective truth, but in a sense it is.
 
SEGA had a reputation for being style over substance due to their arcades roots, and that's partly true, but not always (look at Virtua Fighter).

Also, games can be great because they evoke a certain feeling or create a unique atmosphere. Mechanical depth shouldn't be the only way to measure a game's "greatness".

Jet Set Radio is a perfect example. People rag on it for having unwieldy controls and a sloppy camera system, which is 100% true, but it's the aesthetics that make JSR great. The stylish graphics, the amazing music, the gameplay is good enough that those other aspects can sing. If this wasn't true then it wouldn't have amassed such a following.
 
I think people mistake depth for length. I love a good 100+ hour timesink as much as anybody, but when many games put padding in, then it's not a good thing. The great thing about many Sega games of our childhood is that yes, some are quick pick up and play ones, but even their lenghtier games struck a fine balance. I think Skies of Arcadia can be completed in 40 hours. That's still a long game, but nowadays where spare time is more scarce (or it will be for me in the future!), then I welcome such things.

One of the greatest things i've ever read about Sega was from the satiritcal website UK Resistance (RIP) about Sega blue skies. That rung home for me. Play Daytona USA, Sonic, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, OutRun...they all have this joy about them. Something that's missing these days. I like a dark, moody game as much as anyone and Shenmue isn't my idea of a cheery, happy game, but Shenmue is more gently melancholic rather than angry and bitter. Honestly, the PS3/X360 days were pretty grim at times. It's almost as if every game came in two colours: brown or grey.

Game + Life Review (2/10): BLUE SKY IN GAMES CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED

www.ukresistance.co.uk
 
orient said:
Jet Set Radio is a perfect example. People rag on it for having unwieldy controls and a sloppy camera system, which is 100% true, but it's the aesthetics that make JSR great. The stylish graphics, the amazing music, the gameplay is good enough that those other aspects can sing. If this wasn't true then it wouldn't have amassed such a following.
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I'm sorry to be that idiot that can't see the forest for the trees and goes on an irrelevant tangent, but I just wanted to say the core gameplay in JSR is imo fantastic... it just has an obscene "learning curve" when it comes to getting a good, intuitive feel for the game. At least for me, it is contender for the most satisfying game to play ever made.

I agree with your general point, though. Style in a game, and its effect on a game as a whole, is dramatically underrated. I kind of feel that, in general, once you get your gameplay past a certain standard of "good enough", you get hit with a serious case of diminishing returns. It's at this point that putting tons of effort into S T Y L E and C H A R M really makes sense.
 
Miles Prower said:
According to mine I spent 50 hours playing it in 2021- mainly because I was stopping to talk to every NPC every time Ryo’s question changed to see if there were any interesting conversations/details (still need to do a blog post about that!)
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Pretty sure mine is mostly fishing, picking flowers and running around Bailu... and I still haven't found all flowers
 
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