Love to Hate Shenmue - Shenmue Dojo Show Season 2 Episode 18

spud1897

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Apologies ahead for the very ranty episode, but James and Matt delve into the controversial clickbait and headlines throughout the years that have frustrated Shenmue fans...these unprovoked attacks on our beloved series that we attempt to address...for better or worse :)

Please give us your thoughts and feedback on this episode wherever you please, be it on Twitter, the Forums, or any of our contact options - we'd love to know what you thought!

Visit the Shenmue Dojo Forums to discuss all things Shenmue: https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/index.php

Watch the visual show version for this episode on YouTube:



Listen to the audio Podcast version via all good Podcast providers and Spotify.
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3SHIts34fqgcHnMwbWCWJ4?si=75281fc01f5c47f9
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/shenmue-dojo-show/id1546577751
Anchor: https://anchor.fm/shenmue-dojo

Timestamps & Links:
INTRO (00:00:00)
NEWS (00:04:32)
MUSIC - ARIHIRO & RIKA SATO THEME (00:17:36)
MAIN DISCUSSION - LOVE TO HATE SHENMUE (00:18:57)
MUSIC - BAIHU'S DEFEAT REMIX (01:20:00)
SHENMUE QUIZ (01:23:11)
OUTRO (01:46:00)
MUSIC - INHERITED SKILLS AT DAWN (01:47:30)

MUSIC:
Shenmue 2 OST - Forest 5 (Intro)
Kitchen Brothers - Arihiro & Rika Sato Theme
Richard Cartlidge - Baihu's Defeat Remix
During Quiz - Various Richard Cartlidges Tracks
RyoX - Inherited Skills at Dawn

LINKS:
SEGA Shop EU Pin of the Month - https://www.segashop.co.uk/products/sega-exclusive-pin-of-the-month-shenmue
Jason Demarco Tweet -

Air Twister -

Air Twister Soundtrack - https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/searchuni?term.media_format=&q=Air+Twister+Original+Soundtrack
Shenmusings GameJam Website - https://shenmue2gamejam.wordpress.com/
Dreamcast Junkyard DreamPod with the Dojo! - https://www.thedreamcastjunkyard.co.uk/2022/10/dcjy-welcomes-shenmue-dojo.html
Suka Pass Shenmue Passport Fan App - sukapass.com
Kitchen Bro's Arihiro & Rika Sato Video -

Sporcle Shenmue Quiz -


Article Links:
Destructoid: https://www.destructoid.com/reviews/review-shenmue-i-ii/
Interesting tweet:

Jeff Gerstmann: "It's a fucking bullshit forklift simulator for assholes" - Jeff Gerstmann:



Shenmue is the best bad game of all time: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchw...he-best-bad-game-of-all-time/?sh=e3cef02444cd
Random hate:


Shenmue 2 Bad: https://steamcommunity.com/app/758330/discussions/0/3041605810443916705/
Shenmue 3 Shit Show...:


RGT85 Video:


AEW Sign: https://gamerant.com/aew-all-out-shenmue-3-sign/
https://twitter.com/iamtylermarie/status/1566665022687920129
Poor Sales: https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/633272-poor-shenmue-3-sales-deep-silver-revenue-8-million
Shenmue 3 failed Rebuttal: https://twitter.com/shenmue_dojo/status/1230015597418831873
Video Games Chronicle: https://www.videogameschronicle.com...e-but-isnt-a-mass-market-game-says-publisher/
Shenmue 3 sales Poor: https://www.vg247.com/shenmue-iii-sales-disappoint-japan-uk
Epic Issue rebuttal from Tim Sweeny: https://twitter.com/timsweeneyepic/status/1147539001311711232
Shenmue 3 Free Epic People crying: https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1471510432582193154
Brutalmoose liked it: https://twitter.com/brutalmoose/status/1490222906655195136
Anime did good: https://www.psu.com/news/shenmue-4-publishing-deal-possibly-hinted-at-by-110-industries/
 
For the most part, in my experience, Shenmue is loved and disliked for the same reasons. People love the realism... and there are those who don't... People love how you can explore everything... and there are those who don't... People love how you can get a job... and there are those who don't... People love the dub... and there are those who don't... People love the pace... and there are those who don't...

I'm the type of person that Shemue was tailor made for. It appealed to pretty much every pre-existing interest I had: Japan, martial arts and martial arts cinema, Virtua Fighter, the 1980s, SEGA as a brand, and so on. When I played it for the first time on December 31, 1999 (which I bought at a store in Gilbert, Arizona that also specializes in selling import games), it met my expectations and then some. I found myself in its world right away. I had already studied Japanese for a year and a half at that time and despite having the highest grade in my class, it still wasn't enough to understand the story, but I could at least follow directions to go from point A to point B, etc. I had to rely on the VMS to do the moves. But despite my limited Japanese the first time I played, I still enjoyed it.

In some ways, Shenmue can be dated, but is also still ahead of its time. I know instant gratification people won't like it, and I get it as much as I hate those qualities. I like how Shenmue doesn't hold your hand. You have to interact with the world. Instead of having a mark on your map, I like asking for directions to a certain place. I like fork lift racing. I like learning moves from NPCs. Shenmue is one of the few open world games where I feel I can be in its world. In terms of width, Shenmue's world is like a small lake, but with depths as deep as the Mariana trench. While other open world games may be as vast as an ocean, I feel that they're as deep as a lake.

IMHO, Shenmue is more of people who are substance over style. If you're the opposite, and prefer style over substance (and there's nothing wrong with that), then you're not going to get Shenmue at all.
 
disagree colin spacetwinks qualifies as random hate. Personally feels more in line with your "interesting'" category. They're very level and fair about giving credit to Shenmue and Yu Suzuki where due. Just because they aren't gigantic fans like us doesn't mean they don't appreciate or hate Shenmue; simply neutral on the games--neither bad nor good.
 
disagree colin spacetwinks qualifies as random hate. Personally feels more in line with your "interesting'" category. They're very level and fair about giving credit to Shenmue and Yu Suzuki where due. Just because they aren't gigantic fans like us doesn't mean they don't appreciate or hate Shenmue; simply neutral on the games--neither bad nor good.
Agree. Its vague but respectful enough. Fair enough for Twitter ecosystem. It lacks the power to trigger me.
But Jeff... Jeff, Jeff, Jeff🎶.. Tsk, tsk

Thankfully Im sure that many of those addressed the recent stop-hate GTA6 so we dont need to worry about it happening again right? Right?
 
Great episode, I hope James and Matt do an episode on Shenmue Online. For me outside arguably the Saturn build it holds a lot of intrigue. It’s clear from the fallout it’s unlikely Yu Suzuki will ever provide much information on the game but I wonder if we can gather more information from other parties involved?

Shenmue is filled with all these “what if” moments littered through its history. If they had pivoted and used that reported $20 million budget on Shenmue 3 then, I wonder where we might be now…

All idle speculation.
 
Great episode, I hope James and Matt do an episode on Shenmue Online. For me outside arguably the Saturn build it holds a lot of intrigue. It’s clear from the fallout it’s unlikely Yu Suzuki will ever provide much information on the game but I wonder if we can gather more information from other parties involved?

Shenmue is filled with all these “what if” moments littered through its history. If they had pivoted and used that reported $20 million budget on Shenmue 3 then, I wonder where we might be now…

All idle speculation.
Thanks man,

Glad you enjoyed the episode. We're 100% doing the Shenmue Online one. It will be in December most likely as we've already planned out the next episode.
 
I hope you found the episode cathartic. I think that the whole thing is more complex than initially thought, but one takeaway I find is that from say 2004 - 2016 Shenmue was talked about in hushed whispers about being one of the greatest games ever made (let's not forget that Shenmue still makes most 'best GOAT' lists), but because the Dreamcast games were hard to play, I think for a lot of people, the reality could never match the expectation. So I think a lot of people were angry, because they're playing it, not enjoying it and feeling resentful that people like you and I adore it with all their hearts. Almost like they are left out of a club they don't understand. Does that make sense?

On the other hand, of course as well know, negativity sells and if there's one thing that gets attention and clicks, it's sacrificing a sacred cow. So of course, we're going to respond negatively when people trash something that is beloved to us. When I try to look on the outside in, I have to wonder if people feel the same about their beloved games I give no fucks about. On the other hand, because Shenmue has always had a precarious life, such negativity is always going to hurt more than if someone shits on a CoD game or something.

I also think that many factors outside of gaming play a part to negativity; political strife, the constant doom and gloom in the media, cost of living crises, war etc that it spills into our pores without realising it. For my mental health, I find it too much to spend what precious time I have shitting on something when i'd rather spend time with something I enjoy.

If I don't like something, I try not to give it the time of day. The only exception is with cinema; I adore cinema as much as Shenmue, so i'm worried about the future of it. Scorcese was correct that the Marvelisation of cinema is kinda ruining the medium (and I say this as someone who likes Marvel films to a degree). So in a roundabout way I think i'm doing what you're doing - protecting something precious to me by trying to educate the haters. The problem is that sadly some people can't - or worse - won't be educated. So with Shenmue, because people in a position of power (and I use the term loosely because a lot of YTers I don't give the time of day) are able to harm the series, we do have to go out of our way to defend it. And it's fucking tiring.

I don't know how you guys do it, but i'm forever grateful you do.
 
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