I can't disagree more. Not only it doesn't look terrible at all, but it looks wonderful to me. I love the concept of the Dragon edition, and between the two versions it's the one I'm looking forward the most.Can I be completely honest?
The Dragon Edition looks terrible. Not because you are not good enough, it's the concept behind it that doesn't work. Low-poly assets with PBR shaders is a weird combination that looks odd no matter what.
I strongly believe you should completely ditch the Dragon Edition and focus exclusively on the Phoenix Edition.
Start with the Hazuki residence, remake it from scratch using Quixel MegaScans assets and materials (the recently released scanned assets in Japan that are perfect for this). Some extra assets can be found on the Epic Marketplace for free or extremely cheap. Raid the Medieval Village map, there are some great assets there.
Add a POV GameMode (perhaps with VR) and release that. Then move to Yamanose and so on.
You could use MetaHumans to populate it if you want.
This approach would help to bring talent on board while you are actually giving fans something to play with (although it's not THE Shenmue gameplay, but looking around a familiar environment is still exciting for fans of the saga). This would attract more and more attention and, hopefully, Sega's approval.
I rather have a virtual tour of Shenmue than an unfinished project. Or something that's playable in several years.
Again, I love the passion that you are putting, I just don't think you are using the right approach, spreading yourself too thin on something that's already extremely ambitious.
Not for what I've seen so far, sorry. Minecraft is cubed by design, Shenmue I&II were low-poly by hardware constriction.I can't disagree more. Not only it doesn't look terrible at all, but it looks wonderful to me. I love the concept of the Dragon edition, and between the two versions it's the one I'm looking forward the most.
Phoenix edition will be really interesting, but the more original assets there are, the most authentic Shenmue it will feel. And thinking I could be able to play it at 240 fps or ultrawidescreen or, eventually, VR makes me drool.
Think about those Minecraft mods with raytracing, combining old assets and its particular aesthetics with modern lighting can be really pleasing and distinctive.
Firstly I'd like to welcome you to the Dojo. I'm a follower of the Over-Jump project and a huge Sega Rally fan. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product, though I'll never forgive you for changing from Desert to Forest stage, though I see the reasons why.Not for what I've seen so far, sorry. Minecraft is cubed by design, Shenmue I&II were low-poly by hardware constriction.
In fact, with Shenmue III Suzuki-san went high-poly and took full advantage of all the potential of Unreal Engine.
Minecraft Raytracing also keeps the low-res texture, so you can see how it's not trying to be realistic by any means.
This Dragon Edition is no more than a coat of paint, it looks obsolete now, imagine in a few years. In the Tweeter poll, it was clear that most people prefer to see the Phoenix Edition anyway, so why even bother and dilute the quality?
Have you seen the latest Unreal Engine 5 demo? Then check what kind of assets are available in the Quixel MegaScan library (all for free):
And tell me you don't want to experience a photorealistic Shenmue if you have the chance?
Again, I think the whole reverse engineering is cool, but I feel the whole vision is just slowed down by the Dragon edition, which is a weird in-between.
With UE you can also recreate the basic game mechanics and animation with little effort, see The Simpsons Hit & Run remake: Which is basically what Yu Suzuki did with Shenmue III.
You can still keep all the work done reversing the code when it comes to specific animations, story mechanics, and what not, but you should really think about the bigger picture here.
I'm personally recreating Sega Rally in UE5, but while using the original track design/size and I'm trying to recreate the amazing gameplay, I'm redoing the graphics from scratch. And people are EXTREMELY happy about this, according to the feedback I've been getting on various social media.
I'm not saying that's the only way to do a remake, but I feel like this whole amazing passion and talent is not going anywhere.
I started learning UE5 like 3 months ago, I'm nowhere close to being an expert (although I have over 15 years in VFX, CG, and photography), and I remember checking this project back in February and thinking it was cool... rewatching it now (with everything I learned lately and those demos that came out), I don't see this working.
I'm sure a lot of people will call me a hater, but that's far from the truth. I've been following similar projects very closely, from the Burning Rangers Tribute to the Azel Resurrection project, sharing their work and getting into their vision. And I absolutely love Shenmue since I played it back in 1999 on my Dreamcast. I truly want this project to succeed, that's why I'm giving this honest feedback and constructive criticism. Hopefully, they are more useful than a "this is amazing" one, if you put your egos aside.
Thanks for the welcome! I'm glad you are following my project. Desert is going to happen, trust me! I was already deep into pre-production and I even hired a local photographer in Kenya to capture references and textures for the village at the beginning! It's just delayed because I want to do it properly, so I rather start with Forest for the reasons I listed in my Tweet.Firstly I'd like to welcome you to the Dojo. I'm a follower of the Over-Jump project and a huge Sega Rally fan. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product, though I'll never forgive you for changing from Desert to Forest stage, though I see the reasons why.
I take your points re the photo-realisitc stuff but I'm sure the guys in the project have chosen to keep the aesthetics closer to the Dreamcast originals than more modern. Remember YSNET didn't go photo-real, though I can't recall if the tech was available at the time. S3 is a modern take on the DC art style and if Phoenix looks like that as a base then great. They can easily borrow elements from S3 as needed.
As an aside the Burning Rangers project retains the Saturn artstyle perfectly.
Now it goes into talent.... this project has seen a bunch of media coverage to the point IGN picked it up and I'm pretty sure SEGA know about it. They've got guys working on modelling and assets who came on after this release, 3-4 talented musicians making new tracks and remastering old ones, 3 character artists and more besides.
Also the project lead is an industry veteran who will be well aware of the tasks and challenges of managing a project like this.
I'm sure they would welcome more talent and I'm sure they have done recently.
I think the problem lies in you're basically telling them how to run this project. Now I'm not saying the points aren't valid and all views/opinions are 100% welcomed here but I felt it came across the wrong way, especially the whole ego's thing, that would wind anyone up. They've been open to feedback at each and every juncture (I've banged on and on about some areas being too dark) and I'd be sure they would welcome more.
Keep in mind this project is older than then actual public announcements too by at least a year or so. The workflows etc are set, the art-style is set etc. There is a plan for this.
Drop them a DM on here or via Twitter and chat to them, you've got a clear grasp of VFX from your project and hell you might be able to help each other. They have a discord if you wanted to speak to the team directly as well.
As I say, there's zero hard feelings etc, no one is getting called a hater or anything else. Welcome to the Dojo, I hope to see you more on here and all the best with Over-Jump. Looking forward to seeing the demo you've got planned and how a modern SR looks.
I just gave my straight opinions and ideas, they are free to do whatever they prefer with their time. I don't even care to be credited or anything.You surely look like you have a lot of ideas. If they somehow fit with the current Dragon&Phoenix project, it will be great that you can contribute your graphics skills and previous experience.
But, honestly, it feels really bizarre to me for someone to make so many strong statements about what a hobbyist project from other people should be, or about what supposed audience it owes something to, or about what will be its measure of success.
Maybe I'm being too much zen about this, but if they feel like they want to remake the music, then let them do it. If they prefer to "lose" focus and use some less efficient techniques for the sake of learning or having a good time, then let them do it. It's their hobbyist project, after all. Whatever comes out will be interesting, and I'll be grateful for it.
andI'm not telling them how to run it
I'm not telling you to constantly change your mind on everything.
vfXander said:The Dragon Edition shouldn't leave your hard disk
(this one to an actual member of the dev team I should add)vfXander said:I saw a poll on the project's Twitter with a 75% interest towards the Phoenix Edition, so you are clearly wrong:
vfXander said:I understand this is a passion project, but you should manage it as a proper one if you want to succeed.
vfXander said:I told you to focus on the Phoenix Edition, don't bother to post about the Dragon one
Way to miss literally every single point! :)Hi. I'm not going to beat around the bush here. Get off your high horse and stop devaluing the work of the team because it doesn't line up with your vision of the project.
One minute you say things like
and then you come out with posts like:
(this one to an actual member of the dev team I should add)
I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
Like it or not, they're not looking to make a superficial shell of a game like you keep telling them to. They're out to make what they set out to. Whether or not that's actually achieved that in the long run is completely irrelevant. That's the vision and a fear of failure isn't going to change that.
Take the moral high ground and call it constructive criticism all you like, but all I see is passive aggressive, narcissistic, and patronising nonsense. No project needs a reason to justify its existence.What a stupid thing to say.
Call me fragile if you want. Explain to me how I can't take criticism. I don't really care. You might say that you're 'just keeping it real and saying the hard truth', but in reality the way in which you've gone about making your case is rude, unwarrented, and completely unhelpful despite what you might claim.