- Joined
- Sep 3, 2018
- Favourite title
- Shenmue
- Currently playing
- Rise of the Ronin
Anybody got the PC version of this? How is it?
Anybody got the PC version of this? How is it?
Thank you for providing some clarity on your views as I do not want to misrepresent your views in any way so I apologize if I did. While I never grew up being told that " video games were for kids" I did end up being bullied for it. Imagine being beaten up as a high schooler in 1999 for enjoying Pocket Monsters.@9dragons @Tsukuyomimagi99
I enjoy these layers of discussions with both of you on various games and concepts, Thank You both for sharing in these discussions.
I'd like to clarify that I'm not so much 'new gaming over old gaming' I'm more along the lines of "gaming has never truly been great yet as a whole, with a few rare gems, and those gems are 95% found in 2013 to a current era". the old technology didn't allow for the emotional connection of looking at humans the way it does now. Most new games are just as awful, boring, or uninspired as games were 20-30 years ago, they just look better visually doing it.
I agree with the risk aversion in gaming being an issue. Developers could only dream 20-30 years ago of the possibilities that games have now with the new-gen tech, but most will take fewer risks in the current era. Kena is a great example of failure to take risks and make a compelling game, and that is sad even being from an indie studio because all the issues with it are relating to the story, pacing, and character development. I too was a child in the 1990s and grew up with the 80s, 90s, and 2000s games, but I have the feeling towards the topic of a saying I've heard throughout my life "When I grew up, I put away childish things." That's not to suggest that people should not or could not enjoy the nostalgia from their past, it just simply means to me that I am looking for something deeper than what video games from that era(and the 1980s and 2000s games are no different to me) can provide with very few exceptions, like Shenmue. I approach everything with media as a spiritual experience for myself, in other words, if there isn't any adversity, any dark grit to face, any real story of substance to tell then I'm very rarely interested. This doesn't mean I look at everything in a black and white spiritual concept like much new age or so-called "spiritualists" would look at it. I'm open to violence, evil, provocative topics, etc because the real-life spiritual journey that we all take, whether we are conscious of it or not takes grit to navigate and isn't about a straight line or one-dimensional aspect as often implied. Shenmue does a fairly good job exploring this for a game of its era. My issue with older games is simply that they don't have the technical capacity to tell the stories in any compelling way until Shenmue, and with rare exceptions between Shenmue and the early 2010s era. The graphics were just so bad, and the biggest issue I have is no photorealism. I cannot connect with a character deeply if I am not able to believe I am existing in the real world. Take some of the 1990s anime RPG games for example: if there's one that has a compelling story and it was made in the 2021 era with the photorealism and current tech capabilities, that game could tell a compelling story that could hook me in, especially if it were to stay away from the traditional anime style graphics that gut the characters of emotion so often, with exception to furrowed eyebrows and over the top anger always found in that style of art. Reading text on a screen in the 1990s style games does not move my emotions in the story, nor does it leave a completely blank canvas as a book would for me to use my imagination. It presents me with someone else art and does so in a very primitive manner. It's not to suggest that all the stories are bad in that era. Also, as a child, I did enjoy Pokemon Yellow/Red/Blue and as someone that doesn't like RPG's, that was the exception to the rule and while I could have a moment of nostalgia with it, I don't feel enjoyment as an adult playing something that basic beyond the nostalgia for 10 minutes. Putting away childish things for me yet again. Some things from childhood still have some form of value to me, but they are few and far between. Take WWE wrestling, for example, a completely entertainment-based entity that is right next to video games on the list of 1990s child hobbies. I didn't watch it for nearly 20 years, but recently reconnected with some of the story angles and character work from its golden era circa the late 90s/early 00s and have had a nostalgic ride. A small handful of the newer characters and their stories are interesting, but as a whole the product is awful. I find a spiritual connection to some of the characters and what they represent, so I'm able to pull some personal depth out of an otherwise shallow product presentation. Wrestling(or sports entertainment as it's now called) will always lack the ability to go deep into the real world cosmic issues, but if I can find some value in the characters and story(something I cannot find in baseball, football, or other mostly directionless sporting products), it's worthwhile. Technology allows video games to be over the top with their ability to emote emotion for the first time fully here in the new-gen, and it started to do that well with the later part of the 2013 gen. There's still room for the older style of games, and we get plenty of stuff like that, I just wish gaming would go to the next frontier with its capability. Regarding my previous Pokemon comment, I decided to buy New Pokemon Snap for Switch earlier this year because it looked amazing, something that it couldn't have done and did not do with the 1999 N64 version of the game. Yeah, that was great *in its time* but not the way the 2021 version was. Photography is an amazing spiritual outlet, and Pokemon Snap this year allowed me to connect with the beauty of that simple word. At the same time, as soon as I completed the game I sold the Switch and moved on from it and haven't thought about it or spoke about it until now 6 months later. The gameplay of games from the era we came up with isn't the main issue, although the gameplay itself was usually sloppy back then. I can see though if the gameplay is more important than having an immersive experience of character development and depth why the older generation gaming may be more important to you or anyone for that matter because the new games suck just as much as the old ones do. I'm more on the side of "video gaming as a whole is pretty uninspiring and lackluster with rare gems", but in my opinion, all of those gems are found in 2013 to the current era, with a few rare exceptions like Shenmue. Also, in our discussion about our favorite games, the reason I respect your tastes and opinions just like I do with Tsukuyomimagi is that your favorite games of the old eras are all incredibly well-made titles, but they're just not the direction I want to see gaming go for the future, however in their time they are all great. Resident Evil as a whole, especially the older titles are a gem in gaming history, but I don't feel a personal deep connection with the characters or concept as a whole and even from a story/entertainment standpoint anything after RE4 doesn't click for me, but as a whole, I can see why people enjoy that franchise.
I did end up being bullied for it. Imagine being beaten up as a high schooler in 1999 for enjoying Pocket Monsters.
I also think that individuals connect in different ways to different types of media. They need different means to form emotional and spiritual connections. Otherwise, how does one emotionally resonate with a book that is nothing but text? It is because the prose excites the imagination
I'm hoping that what I said didn't come across as 'video games are for kids' in a shaming manner. I'm saying that I personally outgrew them and other things took their place at a certain time in my life that provided much more depth and experience, particularily being outside and traveling. I sat out on video games from that 2007 to 2019 period and couldn't believe the potential of the technology I returned to in 2019, it blew me away on two accounts. The first that the graphics and tech was so damn good for the first time ever it felt almost real, and the second account was one of shock and disappointment in that games hadn't grown into something deeper as a whole even with this technological improvement. I suppose that goes without saying that anything created by humans with limited scope is going to reflect that be it games, movies, music, books or any other type of expression. If its not driven by something deep within its creator(s), then it tends to not move the needle much in depth. It's no secret that video games were tailored entirely towards young children and teenagers only back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s which is where I can see that stereotype coming from but now that the industry sees the possibilities in selling it to older generations that were once those children/teens, they've been able to appeal to the majority. It's simple for them considering the baby boomers and silent generation were not interested in tech or anything else that promotes advancement in general both back then and now but now that the X, Y and Z gens are all adults and all grew up with video games, gaming will continue to grow regardless of quality being high, low or somewhere in between. I am deeply saddened to hear that you were bullied for enjoying video games at any age, but especially a younger age where it can potentially leave even more lasting impact. Bullying in general, even at a high school level is unacceptable. I too went through the same type of circumstances with being bullied by being a minority in a super violent gang infested neighborhood in the southside of Chicago. In my case it didn't matter if I enjoyed video games, wrestling or any other so called 'nerd' hobbies, it was just simply that I had the wrong skin color where I lived so it created a situation where I felt (and literally was) in constant danger simply due to that one issue. Adding the fact that I enjoyed video games, wrestling, reading books, self educating any chance I was able to and any other type of so called 'nerdy white kid' activities only made things worse when dealing with the gang culture and trash that it attracts. So, I can relate and it's quite brave of you to keep enjoying your hobbies regardless of what the bullies thought. There's no judgment from me towards anyone of any age for enjoying whatever it is that brings them peace and enlightenment, I just found myself personally outgrowing the gaming hobby mainly because it didn't offer much more than basic entertainment on machines that weren't capable of much at the time. It's why I always said "Shenmue 3 will be the one exception to get me to revisit gaming" and it did, and then I found out there are a few other really amazing spiritual gaming experiences that had happened in the last 5-10 years. Having visited everything I 'missed out' on while I left the hobby I literally haven't gotten that from any game that came out before 2011 with exception to Shenmue 1 and 2, so I'm hoping that brings some light to what I was saying originally that it's a personal experience, not a general shaming statement about being too old for something.Thank you for providing some clarity on your views as I do not want to misrepresent your views in any way so I apologize if I did. While I never grew up being told that " video games were for kids" I did end up being bullied for it. Imagine being beaten up as a high schooler in 1999 for enjoying Pocket Monsters.
I also think that individuals connect in different ways to different types of media. They need different means to form emotional and spiritual connections. Otherwise, how does one emotionally resonate with a book that is nothing but text? It is because the prose excites the imagination. After all, back in our tribal days, all we had were words, it just took someone creative to express those mere words into something that would stir the hearts and minds of others.
While I love to have spiritual communion with the media I consume it is not something I expect nor happen often. This is why when it does happen such as with Shenmue, it makes it all the more meaningful. For the most part, all I expect from a video game is for it to be fun. And for me, that usually boils down to a title have solid gameplay mechanics and/or an interesting narrative.
That being said, I respect your viewpoints, and I think it's great that you hold art to a much higher standard. I may not agree with all your opinions but I respect the nuances in your views. So thank you for clarifying your stance. I hope you find the spiritual enrichment you are looking for.
I feel like you've summed up life rather well with this point. What I take from it is: Like what you like and ignore everyone else that wants to tear you down for it. I'm always digging deeper to understand the *why* behind what I enjoy, and see where it psychologically attaches to my past, upbringing and where I'm heading, etc. But in general, if we know what we like and there's nothing inherently evil or sick in it, its all good!I suffered a lot with bullying all my life so i really can relate a lot to what happen with you. I think it's sad that people make fun of other people because of the kind of music they like, because they like anime and much more, respect is really important to me, in my opinion human beings still have a lot to evolve in this universe.
I agree, some people think that reading books is boring but other people love books and even cry reading books, some people think that Shenmue is boring but i think is a masterpiece.
Some people think card games are boring but i love card games.
Some people don't like old consoles and games, they don't like the style of old games but other people love retro games, i love old games, i love retro style, there are so many old games that i want to play for the first time, i want to experience so many old games.
If a Resident Evil fan make a game with the old style of the first games i will really enjoy playing in this style, but i know that some people don't like old styles like i do and that's okay.
If i play the old Pokemon games i know i will enjoy because i like this style of gameplay but other people don't enjoy that, if Nintendo make a Pokemon game in a style similar to the old games i know i will probably enjoy but other people don't enjoy that and that's okay.
Some people think that Visual Novels are boring but other people love visual novels, i love visual novels, here in the west is not popular but in Japan is super popular.
I have a friend that prefers 2D games than 3D games, my friend prefers old games.
I could go on and on but i think i made my point, at the end of the day is all about tastes people have about entertainment and art.
Very interesting observations and I agree with most of what you're saying here. With gaming I look at more as 'Purpose driven versus entertainment only" and of course there are some games that fall in between, and would most likely lean closer to purpose driven if they have something worthwhile to say in their expression. Of course older games could offer purpose driven experiences too, but they wouldn't feel realistic in doing so because of the technical limitations, which is one of the things I loved about Shenmue when it released. Sure, Shenmue doesn't technically look good by todays standards but in 1999 it was state of the art graphically and it felt very real for its time and still feels very real in many ways, it found a way to harness the depth of emotion required to deliver a purpose driven story during a time where that was incredibly difficult to do so due to the limitations of the graphics, voice acting and general technology. Today, the machines are all brutally powerful and abundant with realistic graphics(even cartoon based games can feel real in todays possibilities) and yet for the most part the games of this era fall short like the games of 20-30 years ago did in the purpose driven category. There's nothing wrong with Tetris or any other game that is simplistic and entertainment based only, my issue falls in line with the games that try to tell a story, which is almost all games to some degree or another and that story having nothing compelling to say at all, or glorifying shallow ego based mental disorder type of stuff as if it's cool or healthy. I really like that you highlighted the word 'cool' within this post, because that's the problem and has been the problem for a very long time. Too much 'cool' and not enough "what is intelligent, purpose driven, entertaining AND cool!"Yes it is really intersting to hear different opinions. And new vs old gaming might really not be the right wording. Maybe it is better to call it new style vs old school.
Although I was not a arcarde consumer in the 90s, I am not even sure if we had one at our town but the acarde gameplay still forged my gaming taste to certain degree. With arcarde like games you can have fun even if you play just for a short time.
That is impossible with modern games due to their complexity. You can just turn own your console and have fun, because in 30 min you cannot even get through the tutorial which is annoying of your gaming time is limited.
I have nothing against complex games in general, games like Shenmue for example ar awesome but sometimes a bit simpler gameplay can be nice.
It is really hard to enjoy your average modern open world when your time is limited. The travel time from one arc to the next can way too long to make anything out of the short time.
Games are becoming too big for their own good. The production costs are rising and that is not good for the industry and the customers. It is not cool anymore to play simple games. Everything has to be complex with many different gameplay modes and features.
Many of the features are forced and do not make the gameplay better. This features are just there to make the game longer. It is about quantity and not quality.
That is not the problem of the tech. The gaming tech is not a problem. The tech has the potential to make games even better than they have ever been. The way how people and their devs see the game that is the problem.
They have lost the focus somehow. Big but empty open worlds are the norm now.Games with a limited setpiece are not considered as cool. But they offer way more fun than the big vast landscapes.
The new Life is Strange is really good in that regard. Even the scenarios outside from buildings over enough space to explore but still put enough details into the gaming world to feel immersed.